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Anything goes - Praise for "etch"

Daniele - 12.09.2006, 00:09 Uhr
Titel: Praise for "etch"

From DistroWatch Weekly:

"How good will be the upcoming release of Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 "etch"? If you believe Joey Schulze, one of the most prominent Debian developers, then "etch" is not ready for release: "I'm scared by Debian etch. It'll probably become the worst Debian release ever. It's going to hurt our reputation." Luckily, the above assertion turns out to be a joke: "After plugging the cable into the USB slot, an icon appeared on the screen and after clicked caused the system to mount the first partition on the external disk. It worked. Out of the box. Without tweaking anything. That's so non-Debian..." A pre-configured scroll wheel on a USB mouse further puzzled the well-known Debian personality who concludes his weblog entry with: "Where are the hours of fiddling around how to properly add USB stuff to the system? Where are the evenings you needed to debug such stuff? Nowadays it just works? Where's the Debian we all knew?" Is Ubuntu getting some serious competition from its older brother? We should find out before the end of this year...."

michael7 - 12.09.2006, 04:03 Uhr
Titel:

I'm hopeful.

DeepDayze - 12.09.2006, 04:33 Uhr
Titel:

Second that Winken

slam - 12.09.2006, 09:18 Uhr
Titel:

Well, if you're using Kanotix - you're actually using now most the stuff that will be in Etch by the end of the year.
Greetings,
Chris

Roughnecks - 12.09.2006, 09:53 Uhr
Titel:

i tried etch some weeks ago in a virtual machine and i was very impressed. it basically feels like kanotix, but it will be frozen into a "stable" condition in december.
we'll see in december... i'm hopeful, three Winken

Cathbard - 12.09.2006, 10:44 Uhr
Titel:

Etch is German for "Haven't discovered Kanotix" isn't it? Winken

DeepDayze - 12.09.2006, 13:37 Uhr
Titel:

Cathbard hat folgendes geschrieben::

Etch is German for "Haven't discovered Kanotix" isn't it? Winken

piper - 12.09.2006, 14:53 Uhr
Titel:

Cathbard hat folgendes geschrieben::

Etch is German for "Haven't discovered Kanotix" isn't it? Winken

hehe, you and mz deserve a beer !!!!

h2 - 12.09.2006, 17:53 Uhr
Titel:

As noted, the etch that will become debian stable around december will be very much like today's kanotix.

So if you want to setup some stable machines, assuming your hardware all works and is detected, this is probably a very good time to do that. Home servers, for example, comes to mind as a good place for that, or a laptop where etch works perfectly, and you want it to stay that way for the next 3-5 years, with only security updates etc and upgrades, not dist-upgrades.

I'm going to setup a box like that, though at the moment I doubt I'll change over any desktops to etch, simply because kanotix is working far too well to even think of switching.

hubi - 12.09.2006, 21:37 Uhr
Titel:

piper hat folgendes geschrieben::

Cathbard hat folgendes geschrieben::

Etch is German for "Haven't discovered Kanotix" isn't it? Winken

hehe, you and mz deserve a beer !!!!

Wahooooo! Had a few tonight, but I get me a glass of Hungarian Red Wine now, to hail Kanotix as it is! Mr. Green

hubi

Daniele - 12.09.2006, 21:38 Uhr
Titel:

Cathbard hat folgendes geschrieben::

Etch is German for "Haven't discovered Kanotix" isn't it? Winken

I know yours is only a joke, but without Etch (which as everybody knows is Sid after some extra testing) Kanotix couldn't exist Smilie

hubi - 12.09.2006, 21:48 Uhr
Titel:

Daniele,

I don't get you. Kanotix uses Sid, Etch is the next step. So: do Kano's fixes not help users of Etch a few weeks/months later if they are seeking for them?

hubi

Daniele - 12.09.2006, 22:04 Uhr
Titel:

hubi hat folgendes geschrieben::

Daniele,

I don't get you. Kanotix uses Sid, Etch is the next step. So: do Kano's fixes not help users of Etch a few weeks/months later if they are seeking for them?

hubi

Sorry hubi, I must confess you lost *me* (to make it more clear, I don't understand what you mean)

hubi - 12.09.2006, 22:39 Uhr
Titel:

Daniele,

I just did not get, why Kanotix would not exist without Etch, because Kanotix uses Sid (Unstable) as basis.

About the fixes: bigger changes move into Sid first, so we get fixes here for Sid by Kano or teammembers, and those fixes can be used in Etch as well when these changes move up to Etch. But they are first here, at Kanotix, at Sid, not at Etch.

Hope that I can get my viewpoint through,
hubi

Daniele - 12.09.2006, 22:54 Uhr
Titel:

hubi hat folgendes geschrieben::

Daniele,

I just did not get, why Kanotix would not exist without Etch, because Kanotix uses Sid (Unstable) as basis.

Yes, but Sid exists only as a test bed for Debian testing (which at the moment is Etch)

Zitat:

About the fixes: bigger changes move into Sid first, so we get fixes here for Sid by Kano or teammembers, and those fixes can be used in Etch as well when these changes move up to Etch. But they are first here, at Kanotix, at Sid, not at Etch.

Yes, but I don't believe that Kanotix fixes are used by the Debian team. I might be wrong, though.

michael7 - 12.09.2006, 23:34 Uhr
Titel:

Zitat:

I don't believe that Kanotix fixes are used by the Debian team

If the Debian team isn't using Kanotix fixes, they aren't behaving intelligently. IMHO, Debian should delegate hardware detection and the GUI installer to Kano and company. We all know that a Kanotix install is as easy as falling in love and Kanotix has few, if any, peers with hardware detection. Imagine how popular "Etch" would be if Kano was in charge of those two items! Ubuntu would be a shrinking image in Etch's rear view mirror.

hubi - 12.09.2006, 23:36 Uhr
Titel:

1. answer
Don't know what they are doing at Etch, but: Sid is supported by Kanotix and all the Debian fixes are earlier here than in Etch (goodies and badies).

2. answer
Don't know what the Kanotix team is doing towards Debian, but I did bugreports to Debian which were fixed, so fixed packages are going up to Etch because we were doing something here (developers and users - and I am just a user).

Overall:
We use Kanotix kernels and scripts, we are supported by a fantastic team and a fantastic community to ship around the problems of Sid and are able to use the beauty of Sid. There is no urge for me to use Etch, and the question remains: who will support me when using Etch (which is surely a very fine system, but who might support me?). Using Kanotix gives me fantastic software support (from Debian), a fantastic team (Kanotix), the newest kernels (Kanotix), the best support ever (team, community in forum and IRC), and the team releases fantastic Live-CDs. No use to switch, just the urge to stick with this crew.

hubi

anticapitalista - 13.09.2006, 00:39 Uhr
Titel:

I have to agree with hubi.
I have been using Sid in various forms over the last 20 months (Kanotix, Mepis and Debian netinstall) and have never needed to re-install, mainly down to people here, but also on Mepis forums too, so Etch would be a backward step for me.

jackiebrown - 13.09.2006, 01:01 Uhr
Titel:

michael7 hat folgendes geschrieben::

Zitat:

I don't believe that Kanotix fixes are used by the Debian team

If the Debian team isn't using Kanotix fixes, they aren't behaving intelligently.

Well it would depend on if the Kanotix team is submitting their patches.

And usually the fixes are "don't upgrade today" or downgrade this package. These are usual fixes to get you machine up and running again, but hardly useful as an upstream fix.

Cathbard - 13.09.2006, 06:03 Uhr
Titel:

I don't get it. It's people testing sid (like Kanotix) that makes etch possible. If nobody tested unstable it would stay in sid and never become etch. Things move into testing after people have played with them in unstable and found the bugs. Aren't you putting the cart before the horse? Etch wouldn't exist without sid. And what makes you think that the Kanotix team don't feed bug reports and fixes back to debian?
Kanotix makes sid usable so I don't see a need for etch if you use Kanotix - hence the joke.

slam - 13.09.2006, 09:15 Uhr
Titel:

Zitat:

Yes, but I don't believe that Kanotix fixes are used by the Debian team. I might be wrong, though.

Dead wrong ....
Greetings,
Chris

wegface - 13.09.2006, 10:10 Uhr
Titel:

I keep an etch installed to a partition on my system just incase things go wrong in sid/ kanotix.........
Must of booted to it for that reason less than 5 times ever Lachen

But etch is very good, i do like it, and the new graphical installs are great.
Not too sure bout the default gnome setup it dumps you in, bloody awful looking would be the correct words...
Peace
(and big up the debian!) Winken

Daniele - 13.09.2006, 11:59 Uhr
Titel:

slam hat folgendes geschrieben::

Zitat:

Yes, but I don't believe that Kanotix fixes are used by the Debian team. I might be wrong, though.

Dead wrong ....
Greetings,
Chris

And so, what answers would you give to jackiebrown's objections?

slam - 13.09.2006, 12:38 Uhr
Titel:

Zitat:

And so, what answers would you give to jackiebrown's objections?

The Kanotix team is submitting bug reports, fixes and patches on an almost daily base to upstream developers and Debian maintainers. Some of our team members are upstream developers/maintainers themselves. Despite many other (commercial) Linux distributions who harvest everything from the open source community and contribute just very little, we are part of the open source community ourselves. I really thought this was clearly stated several time already here in our forums.
This is probably less visible to everyone not involved in that process, what you see are the results only. However, everybody is very welcome to join our IRC where most of the related communications take place. Kanotix has nothing to hide, and everybody is hearty invited to help and contribute.
Greetings,
Chris

DeepDayze - 13.09.2006, 13:52 Uhr
Titel:

Hey Slam...we are not knocking your work...just pointing out some things Smilie

jackiebrown - 13.09.2006, 17:07 Uhr
Titel:

jackiebrown hat folgendes geschrieben::

And usually the fixes are "don't upgrade today" or downgrade this package. These are usual fixes to get you machine up and running again, but hardly useful as an upstream fix.

Daniele hat folgendes geschrieben::

And so, what answers would you give to jackiebrown's objections?

These were not meant as objections. Simply stating that the solutions we see on the forums are not usually applicable to upstream but are extremely usually to users to get out of a problem cause by a dist upgrade.

I actually meant that as a compliment which is why I don't think Slam intially responded to what I said.

Even more praise goes towards the kanotix team for filing and helping to fix bug reports.

(I am good myself at the filing, not so good at the fixing Sehr glücklich

. I think out of all the reports I have filed to Debian I only solved 1)

devil - 13.09.2006, 18:20 Uhr
Titel:

jackiebrown,
a good example is bluez-utils updated this morning, and more or less useless, cause it wont play with udev. the fix for that was on its way to the maintainer by noon.

greetz
devil

analogtek - 24.09.2006, 01:33 Uhr
Titel: The race engine analogy!

Sid is all stress out to the red line.too the max...Etch is backed down a couple of click's... a fast but more stable ride...

DeepDayze - 24.09.2006, 03:09 Uhr
Titel: RE: The race engine analogy!

What about Experimental? How is it compared to Sid or Etch?

stryder - 24.09.2006, 03:48 Uhr
Titel: RE: The race engine analogy!

I may be wrong (in fact usually am) but I think that experimental is not a full repository in that you can have a whole installation from just experimental like you can with testing and unstable. Experimental seems to be a place where maintainers can put packages that they want alpha tested before it goes into unstable.

jackiebrown - 24.09.2006, 04:10 Uhr
Titel: RE: The race engine analogy!

You are right stryder