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drb
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 08.07.2006, 16:25 Uhr



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What's the difference between the Lite and Full versions? Is the license transferrable between Windows/ Linux?

drb

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mzilikazi
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 09.07.2006, 02:59 Uhr
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Does Lightzone handle 16 bit RAW images? AFAIK this is not possible under Linux. If I am not mistaken (and often times that is the case) GIMP can handle only 8 bit RAW images.

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JimC
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 09.07.2006, 03:18 Uhr



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drb hat folgendes geschrieben::
What's the difference between the Lite and Full versions? Is the license transferrable between Windows/ Linux?
drb


Eric (Eric Hyman is the developer of Bibble) has a FAQ section that can help with those types of questions on his web site. It looks like you'll probably need the Pro version to use it on more than one operating system:

http://www.bibblelabs.com/learn/support_faq.html#3

http://www.bibblelabs.com/learn/support_faq.html#4

I'd download the trial versions of both and see how you like 'em. I haven't tried any of Eric's software lately (since he's added Noise Ninja and more).

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JimC
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 09.07.2006, 03:41 Uhr



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mzilikazi hat folgendes geschrieben::
Does Lightzone handle 16 bit RAW images? AFAIK this is not possible under Linux. If I am not mistaken (and often times that is the case) GIMP can handle only 8 bit RAW images.


Raw files are 16 bit. But, they're not in a format that most image editors understand yet. So, most raw converters can output either an 8 bit or 16 bit file after the demosaic process.

This article may help explain some advantages of shooting in raw:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutor ... iles.shtml

The plugins you're seeing are converting the raw file into a file that has red, green and blue values for each pixel that most image editors like Gimp can understand. Gimp can only handle 8 bit editing. Many other other programs can handle 16 bit editing (even Krita, included with KOffice can).

The biggest problem editing in 8 bit mode is posterization. Depending on how much editing you do, it may or may not be a problem. But, working in 16 bit is a better way to go if given a choice to reduce image degradation and unwanted artifacts.

There should be plenty of solutions available for Linux now to meet most needs. I just installed Kanotix again yesterday (it's been a while since I've played with it). So, I'll probably spend some time trying to install and play with some of the image editing solutions around for it now.

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mzilikazi
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 09.07.2006, 04:53 Uhr
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JimC hat folgendes geschrieben::

There should be plenty of solutions available for Linux now to meet most needs.


Well that's just it, converting is not the issue, editing is and there aren't any Linux image editors capable of editing in 16 bit mode (except for Krita apparently). That's not even an option for me personally but I have a friend or two that may find that to be good news. So does Lightzone edit 16 bit raw images or no?

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JimC
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 09.07.2006, 05:41 Uhr



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mzilikazi hat folgendes geschrieben::
JimC hat folgendes geschrieben::

There should be plenty of solutions available for Linux now to meet most needs.


Well that's just it, converting is not the issue, editing is and there aren't any Linux image editors capable of editing in 16 bit mode (except for Krita apparently). That's not even an option for me personally but I have a friend or two that may find that to be good news. So does Lightzone edit 16 bit raw images or no?


I haven't even loaded it yet, and I'm not familiar with the product. lol

But, it probably uses a 16 bit workspace (many modern image editors do, Gimp is an exception).

There are some others around for Linux, too {a product called Pixel is one example), and you can use some of the Windows editors around under Wine.

It all depends on the sophistication you need. Some users never do ayything mroe than they can do in some of the raw converters (many have some editing capability built in). Others go much further with an image.

When I was looking at the feasilibty of switcihng to Linux last year, all I did was make sure I had some basic tools available. I made sure Bibble (the version available at the time) ran OK, and got the FastStone Image Viewer running under Wine as a browsing tool with basic editing ability, and figured that I could expand from there with additional tools under Wine if I couldn't find anything I liked available for Linux.

So, it looked like most of the pieces were in place, and I'm not going to insiet on 16 bit editing only for most of my needs.

You can make basic exposure adjustmetns and apply curves in some of the raw converters around.

So, you don't run into much of a problem with the rest anyway. I rarely do a lot other than a bit of USM and cropping after raw conversion.

I'll do some digging around and see what works well under Linux over the next week or so. I don't normally use Linux. So, I'm not very familiar with the tools you can get for it yet (other than well known products like Bibble).

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JimC
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 09.07.2006, 16:41 Uhr



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Here's another project that may be worth a look that appears to support a 16 bit workspace:

http://www.cinepaint.org/

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JimC
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 09.07.2006, 17:18 Uhr



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mzilikazi hat folgendes geschrieben::
JimC hat folgendes geschrieben::

There should be plenty of solutions available for Linux now to meet most needs.


Well that's just it, converting is not the issue, editing is and there aren't any Linux image editors capable of editing in 16 bit mode (except for Krita apparently). That's not even an option for me personally but I have a friend or two that may find that to be good news.


And yet Linux image tool that supports 16 bit..

Apparently, Digicam went 16 bit in April. Some info:

* All Image Plugins now support 16 bit
* New Black and White converter plugin for Image Editor
* New Noise Reduction plugin for Image Editor
* New GPS info viewer
* New metadata viewer available
* New image plugins control panel dialog zooming features in 0.9.0
* Color Management
* Working on Camera GUI...
* New image Editor color correction tools preview modes in 0.9.0

http://www.digikam.org/

I'm sure there are more around, too.

It looks like there are tools available for 16 bit editing in Linux. It all depends on the sophistication you need and what you want to do.

I'll try some of the Linux tools around in the near future and see what I think of them.

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mzilikazi
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 10.07.2006, 00:00 Uhr
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Hmmm the Digikam site also says:
Zitat:
0.8.1
8 bit raw support has been added, you can now view those images in the imageviewer. In digiKam version 0.9.0 there will be 16 bit raw support.


So not sure if it's really there or not just yet since latest release of digikam is 0.8.2-RC1. Good to know that it's being addressed tho.

JimC hat folgendes geschrieben::


It looks like there are tools available for 16 bit editing in Linux. It all depends on the sophistication you need and what you want to do.


Well actually I have only the simplest of editing needs since I'm colorblind anyway, the worst thing I could do is attempt to adjust colors! Some of us just have to take the shot right the first time. Winken All I ever do is crop, rotate and stitch panoramas. If there's some sort of "auto-adjust" for color (in whatever editor I happen to be using) then I might try that and ask the wife which is better but that's the extent of it. Gqview, Hugin & GIMP are more than adequate for my own needs.

My curiosity about Linux photo editing is because I've had several friends mention that Photoshop is the only reason they even keep a windows partition around and I'd like to do them a favor and help them dump the win partition you see. Call me demeted............

I'm certainly always curious to know what a real user thinks of a specific application (photo editing or otherwise) but it's hard to find someone that really uses the alternative instead of just going back to what they already know and have come to expect. These people don't tell me much of anything other than "it's not just like <insert app here> so I can't use it." Well, that I already know....

Looking forward to your (honest) opinions. Smilie

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JimC
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 10.07.2006, 00:34 Uhr



Anmeldung: 16. Mar 2005
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Photoshop is well liked. I use it, but only because I like ACR (Adobe Camera Raw). lol

A lot of photographers really swear by it (and it's a pretty decent raw converter).

I could live without it though, and I really don't need the power of Photoshop for the kind of editing I typically do.

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mzilikazi
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 23.07.2006, 04:56 Uhr
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New LightZone 1.5. Please try!

Still does not read my .tif files created with hugin.

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JimC
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 13.08.2006, 18:31 Uhr



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I got around to trying LIghtZone today.

To be frank, I just don't like it, at all. I can hardly find anything nice to say about it. First impressions were very bad.

When browsing the folders on my hard disk (in this case, an NTFS partition), the folders were not sorted by name, and I couldn't find a way to do something even this simple with it (and this is no problem with the Gimp).

Well, after looking through the folders and loading an image, I selected a different view and the very first thing that happend was a crash.

It was a graceful crash (LightZone has encountered an internal error and must shut down, etc.), and it offered to let me save changes (which it did). But, it was still a crash.

That was my only crash (it worked fine after the next load). But, that was a bad start for user perception of a product.

Then, after loading an image and trying different tools, they just seemed to be too primative compared to more refined products. Perhaps a lot of it has to do with how the user interface looks. It's just not pretty.

Heck, I couldn't even figure out how to do something as simple as looking at an image's properties (right clicking on the image didn't do a thing, and I didn't see a menu choice anywhere for it).

I looked through tools for adjusting contrast, sharpness, noise removal, white balance and more. I wasn't impressed with any of them.

I think a lot of it is just it's "look and feel". I find it to be ugly and primative looking.

On the surface, it looks like the raw conversion built in is based on Dave Coffin's dcraw.c code. Looking at images in LightZone and the Gimp using the UFRaw plugin (which is using a lot of Dave's code), I didn't see any difference in the way an image was being handled using the defaults with the camera's white balance.

I didn't spent much time looking at more images to be sure. But, my initial impression is that the raw conversion piece looks OK (at least on the surface with a very quick glance at how it was doing the conversion on a couple of images).

Uwe Steinmueller has a review of it that you may want to read. I respect his opinion and noticed he said this about it:

* Be aware that LightZone works differently than other editors. This will require some time to master. Try to experiment with selective operations in regions because here LZ can make a difference."

http://www.outbackphoto.com/artofraw/raw_26/essay.html

But, I just don't want to spend any time trying to "master it". It's just not for me. Even 30 minutes in it tried my patience. I'm not sure I spent even that long in it. There just wasn't much to see from my perspective.

Someone else may find it to be just fine for how they want to use an image editor. Each user is going to have different preferences. So, try it for yourself and see if it's a good fit.

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JimC
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 13.08.2006, 22:40 Uhr



Anmeldung: 16. Mar 2005
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I spent a bit more time in LightZone, and perhaps I was a bit harsh.

First impressions were just not that good.

If you are browsing images, it does have very good information about an image. In fact, I'm impressed at the amount of information it's extracting from the EXIF in .mrw files (raw files from a Konica Minolta DSLR), even to the point of manufacturer specific information on exactly what lens was used (not just the focal length and maximum available aperture, but the actual lens).

Some products can't even pull EXIF info from raw files at all. So, it's rare to see a third party product that supports that level of detail.

My gut feeling from spending more time in it is that it's not a tool that I'd be comfortable with compared to what I'm used to. But, I'll spend a bit more time in it anyway before ruling out using it for anything. Perhaps I'm just a bit too "set in my ways" to appreciate it's approach.

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drb
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 13.08.2006, 22:42 Uhr



Anmeldung: 03. Jul 2004
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I use it for viewing Nikon raw files - it's the fastest NEF file viewer I've found!

I agree with the above as far as image editing - strange and limited workflow capability.

drb

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mzilikazi
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 20.09.2006, 22:14 Uhr
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New Lightzone release 1.6
Please test.

A quick test:
It can see my .tif files yay! This did not work in the last version.
I have a directory with some HUGE panoramic images. It loads directories very fast even on my large panoramic images ( 40+ MB ea.)

2 problems:

There were 2 jpg images that caused Lightzone to lockup. No idea why as they are the same as other .jpg images I've got. Sent them to Anton to see if he can find a reason.

Lightzone doesn't yet see my Fuji raw images. Sent those off too.

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joecool
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 04.09.2007, 12:29 Uhr



Anmeldung: 02. Aug 2005
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Hi out there,
I've recently discovered LightZone, and I think it is an amazing product. Don't let yourselves be dissuaded from using it by people who obviously did not even care to watch the 3 simply introductory video tutorials on the website. As a photographer with 40+ years experience, I say this is a tool I really like & which is very very useful.
You may want to convince yourselves by looking at a couple of photos here:
http://altphotos.com/MyALT.aspx?a=Photo ... oid=309348
(check out the whole "Morning Walk" series, I've made some annotations with the 2 examples). These pictures say more than many words, I think. They were not raw files, btw, but jpegs from a low-end 6MP Samsung. I'll have yet to try LightZone with my Nikon D50 in raw mode, but it seems very promising.
You'll find instructions for installation here in the forum, otherwise just go to:
http://www-old.lightcrafts.com/linux/
You find a link to the tutorials in the "learning center" on the right.
Installation is a breeze (from the website):
To install LightZone for Linux, simply copy the tarball contents to a convenient place (your home directory for example), unpack it ("tar xf LightZone-rev.8224.tar.gz") and run the LightZone launch script that comes out.
My machine is a P4 2.4 GHz, 1024 MB ram. I use (and like) "The Gimp", too, and have some experience with older Photoshop versions. But LightZone works a lot more similar than what I would do in the B&W darkroom, without having to sit in the dark for hours.
Hope this helps,

- joecool



s6000032_n-1_kl.jpg
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