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bb
Titel: From Windows to Kanotix - non techie  BeitragVerfasst am: 28.09.2006, 15:51 Uhr



Anmeldung: 28. Sep 2006
Beiträge: 2

Most articles including "(Linux is Not Windows)" at http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm would discourage me, a non techie/ non system person (but reasonably competent with some background in Basic & DOS from the early days) from considering the switch to Linux. Especially as i'm entering my 6th decade, and my mind decayed since i learned that early stuff (must anticipate worse to come?) and with little time or patience for playing with "unimportant details". Please pardon the pun!

There are however powerful incentives. Windows 98 is no longer supported and my daughters' Windows XP now has a message indicating non-Genuine software and you know what that means. It seems every 18 months i get a major blowup that causes months of frustration to get things working again (i use an old Lotus spreadsheet and mouse buttons reversed to avoid my carpal tunnel syndrome = setup problems)> If Mr Gates would just leave me alone, i wouldn't mind to pay but by my 70th, i'm sure he will invoke a major change on me again. Then there is the juggernaught of identity theft which at this stage is a real concern/ threat and if Linux is less attacked, that could be big if unable to leave home to do banking.

Really, could i get used to the arcane way of doing things in Linux as described in the various articles. Maybe. I do recall doing a bit of unix when the system fellows would require it. Like following the suggestions of Kanotix' excellent support group? The commands may be weird but once you get used to them, doesn't bother me. It did set my teeth back a bit though last night when i couldn't figure out how to save a file to A: but i'm sure its ok once used to the logic -- if my mind holds up. And in Windows, there is now so many ways to do the same thing, i often cannot remember which is which - better to just have one way. And will Linux go through major evolutions that i will not be able to ignore and which will require much befuddled frustration? Its encouraging to have your help (forum and chat) but the downside is that my kids, friends and neighbours who become more important as you get older, are cut off from the discussion. Would i be trailblazing, or just becoming (more) eccentric?

Similarly, years ago, i made the switch to Dvorak keyboard. I love it and still use it but cannot touch type anywhere else - a real problem. I now think it was a mistake but probably too late to go back.

So for years, whenever frustrated, having threatened the world that i would escape to the land of Linux, i now have my chance and even tried the Live CD! But is the grass really greener?

Looking forward to your thoughts.
 
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devil
Titel: From Windows to Kanotix - non techie  BeitragVerfasst am: 28.09.2006, 16:08 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 06. Mai 2005
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hi bb and welcome!
dvorak is not the problem, just set keyboard settings to it in kcontrol - solved Winken
i guess we have a similar background in computing, as i started out in the dos days as well.
i tried linux lots of times during the past 10 years with stuff like suse 6.x.
i never really had the time to get into it until about 2 years ago, when i started using first ubuntu and mepis, which i left pretty fast for different reasons to find my home with kanotix, which i never regretted.
its a bit of a learning curve, but once you see, how powerfull konsole is, especially having a dos background, there is no way back.
just give it a try. we have the best community i know here on the forum as well as in irc #kanotix for quick answers. so, jump, and see, what computing can be.

greetz
devil

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ockham23
Titel: RE: From Windows to Kanotix - non techie  BeitragVerfasst am: 28.09.2006, 16:26 Uhr



Anmeldung: 25. Mar 2005
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For most desktop users an operating system is just that: an operating system. If it does what you want it to do, you don't care whether it's Windows or Linux. Switching from one system to another would just be a waste of time.

Some people are intellectually curious about the discussion on open source software vs. proprietary software such as Microsoft's products. But you can learn everything about it without even having to touch a Linux system. If there's any preparation for this kind of discussion, it's probably obtaining a law degree.

Finally, there are two very small groups of people who use and promote Linux for desktop computers: Members of the first group are curious about the technical aspects of computers and software. They feel that Microsoft has taken the fun out of computing because the user is treated like a dummy and not allowed to peek behind the scenes. The other group has mostly psychological motives. They like to support the underdog, and some even become zealous missionaries fighting against "evil" Microsoft and corporations in general. For these two groups the grass is indeed greener on the Linux side.

Apart from that, it's always fun to try something new, and Kanotix is very rewarding in this regard because it's probably the most exciting Linux distribution.

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UncleDeadley
Titel: RE: From Windows to Kanotix - non techie  BeitragVerfasst am: 28.09.2006, 17:04 Uhr



Anmeldung: 24. Jun 2006
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Grass is greener to my eyes Smilie I like having my computer obey. Windows didn't obey me like I thought it should. I actually feel like I am in control of my machine again, and if feels GOOD. Getting help w/ windows problems is SUCH a pain, always very difficult for me. Once my kanotix boxes are working, they just keep working- no self destruction. They only break occaisionally when I update everything. And then, the folks around here are so VERY helpful with getting things fixed up again. I love it, really.
 
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hubi
Titel: RE: From Windows to Kanotix - non techie  BeitragVerfasst am: 28.09.2006, 17:15 Uhr



Anmeldung: 22. Jan 2006
Beiträge: 1296
Wohnort: Budapest
bb,

read a bit, because everything is different (as you said, floppy is fd0). But Linux became quite convenient, no mounting through the shell anymore Smilie

But keep a Windows for quite a time. I did that when I switched. You might destroy your installation just because you make a mistake (I did that at least twice when I was learning Linux), you might have troubles with this and that, you might not know which applications are available, your printer might not work, your scanner might not be supported. Just test it.

After switching I gradually changed to Linux (had a dual-boot setup):

- surfing, internet banking
- mailing
- upgrading hardware
- looking round for applications
- transferring data to my Linux partition
- forgetting about Windows

All in all, it was a process of six months, and my intention was not even a total switch, just wanted to be secure again when I use the internet. But here I am, just using Linux at the moment, well: just Kanotix. Sehr glücklich

hubi

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stryder
Titel: RE: From Windows to Kanotix - non techie  BeitragVerfasst am: 28.09.2006, 17:19 Uhr



Anmeldung: 26. Jun 2005
Beiträge: 389

Zitat:

And will Linux go through major evolutions that i will not be able to ignore and which will require much befuddled frustration? Its encouraging to have your help (forum and chat) but the downside is that my kids, friends and neighbours who become more important as you get older, are cut off from the discussion. Would i be trailblazing, or just becoming (more) eccentric?


The good thing about using debian (which kanotix is), is that after some time they will "freeze" a stable version of the system and maintain it for security. This means that you can actually choose to stay with the frozen system and be fully updated where security is concerned. And that means you can let the younger kids play with evolutionary changes while you happily stay with the system you know.

As for the important people in your life being cut off from the discussion - it can happen, or they might join the discussion. One never knows. In any case there's much more to talk about in life than an operating system.

Would you be trailblazing? Yes. Or be more eccentric? Yes. But I think that that will make you that much more interesting. But realize this, you might want to join the linux bandwagon but your children/grandchildren might not. If you have more than 1 computer, that's fine. If not, you might want to "dual boot" with the "non-genuine" XP.

Learning a new OS is challenging, especially in the initial stages. But once you get the hang of things, Linux is just another OS, and a pretty good one at that.
 
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mzilikazi
Titel: RE: From Windows to Kanotix - non techie  BeitragVerfasst am: 28.09.2006, 21:05 Uhr
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Well you'll have to draw your own conclusions as to the functionality of Linux. Personally I find the Windows way of doing things to be arcane, unintuitive and not condusive to production in general and without Linux pc's would be a bore. One thing I can say for certain is that no matter how n00bish your questions might be you'll never be given the generic RTFM reply on this forum. We welcome and encourage Linux newbies. Hope to see you around alot inf the future. Smilie

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h2
Titel: RE: From Windows to Kanotix - non techie  BeitragVerfasst am: 28.09.2006, 22:02 Uhr



Anmeldung: 12. Mar 2005
Beiträge: 1005

Zitat:
without Linux pc's would be a bore

My feelings exactly. And it's not just windows by the way, it's the way all largescale commercial software projects are going. I've seen instance after instance where the newest software releases were not in any way better than the ones they replaced [macromedia fireworks 4 versus mx for example comes to mind, norton antivirus today versus 3 years ago, windows xp versus 2000, and so on].

In fact, for me pcs had become such an incredible bore that I was about to quit working with them, before I moved to linux full time. Now I see the source of the boredom, it's created by large software houses like adobe or microsoft, and that boredom comes because you become increasingly locked out from the systems, and dependent on decisions made from major version to major version, most of which do you no good at all as a normal end user. I see vista as being especially nightmareish in this regard, as MS tries the impossible task of achieving near unix like security without the benefit of running a unix like system.

To me the software, as it strives to become increasingly dumbed down [aka 'user friendly'], becomese increasingly more annoying to use, and hinders me more than it helps.

Zitat:
One thing I can say for certain is that no matter how n00bish your questions might be you'll never be given the generic RTFM reply on this forum.

However, unlike with windows help menus, which tend to be pretty useless, with linux, one thing you will start noticing as you begin to learn how to use the massive pool of tools you get with any distro, is that the console --help option for most available programs actually is helpful, and that man <program name>, once you start to understand the terminology, will in fact often actually answer the question of how to do x or y task with that application.

This is not to say that understanding man syntax is particularly newbie friendly, it isn't, but that the more often you give a look at --help, -h [less commonly used], and man files, the more your understanding of the sytem, and your ability to take advantage of new methods and tools, will grow.

So don't be afraid to take a quick look at the manual, but also don't feel bad if it makes no sense to you at first, it didn't make much sense to most people when they started either, I know man stuff was incomprehensible to me when I started with linux years ago, now it seems fairly reasonable, albeit quite dense and technical.

I compare this to a recent irc issue, on how to configure windows xp networking that had broken on a kanotix box.. ok, now right click, select properties... etc. You simply hope that right clicking will do it, that is.

Zitat:
discourage me, a non techie/ non system person (but reasonably competent with some background in Basic & DOS from the early days) from considering the switch to Linux

The key concept to take away from the linux is not windows article is just that.

Just consider this: were you ever consulted about the WGA stuff? Did microsoft ever ask you if it was ok to install what essentially is a fundamental change in the EULA you clicked through when you first got the box? No.

So if you pick an open system like debian, the licensing terms aren't going to result in an action that causes the OS to be shut off, debian isn't going to install a self destruct device into your computer without asking you, in fact, you can rest fairly well assured that they will never do this. In other words, you can trust debian.

You can't trust these big software companies, since, as corporations, their one and only true legal obligation is to their shareholders. At a core level, by the way, I don't trust redhat all that much more than I trust any other company, they just can't do as many nasty things because they use gpl code.

Another point to take is that all the negatives you might think about when you think windows are not side issues, they are directly connected to the entire method of code generation, closed source, proprietary. So expecting open source, free software to mirror windows too much is unrealistic, why should it, the point is that it's not windows, and doesn't want to make the same mistakes.

Windows almost complete lack of security, for example, is built into the corprorate culture, which creates the code. This has never stopped. The decision to push MSIE into the core of the OS, with active x, was not an engineering one at first, but was a result of being sued by Netscape for their monopoly activities. The decision to let active x hook into the core os was something that corporate intranet operators wanted, since security was not as much of an issue in intranets.

so a secure system will be definition not look or act like windows.

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bb
Titel: RE: From Windows to Kanotix - non techie  BeitragVerfasst am: 29.09.2006, 05:52 Uhr



Anmeldung: 28. Sep 2006
Beiträge: 2

Before I run out the door for a few days, i wanted to give a huge thank you for all your most thoughtful replies. You have given me much to think about in an encouraging way. Interesting to note that devil seems to have gotten smarter and smarter in the Linux world while i got dummer and dummer under Windows! Ockham23 got me pegged completely (underdog supporter) while hubi outlines a good approach (but i'll multiply by 3) to get a time estimate of 1-1/2 yrs which seems about right. Stryder, UncleDeadly, Mizilikazi and h2 addressed important concerns in a way that should, i think be made available to a wider audience and would encourage Kanotix to publish their thoughts under a faq or newbie center. Smilie bb
 
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severin
Titel: Re: RE: From Windows to Kanotix - non techie  BeitragVerfasst am: 29.09.2006, 08:26 Uhr



Anmeldung: 18. Mar 2004
Beiträge: 3417

ockham23 hat folgendes geschrieben::
For most desktop users...
Some people...
Finally, there are two very small groups of people...
<unrefined comment>
Windows users don't want to know why their system is not working
DOS users want to know why their system is not working
Mac users don't want to know why their system is working
Linux users want to know why their system is working
</unrefined comment>

SCNR, your differentiating between different groups reminded me of this old saying Smilie

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No clue what I'm talking about? New to Linux? Check http://kanotix.com/index.php?module=pnW ... ForDummies for a glossary.
 
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