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Daniele
Titel: A Debian Stable (Etch) based release?  BeitragVerfasst am: 09.11.2006, 00:42 Uhr



Anmeldung: 23. Mai 2004
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I know that what I am going to write will sound crazy to many: Kanotix has always been based on Debian Sid.

But consider the following:

1)Nobody can deny that 11 months have elapsed since the last stable Kanotix release. Now, for a distro based on something which changes very fast (Sid), that is a contradiction in terms, IMO.

2)Once Debian Stable is released, the majority of Debian users will use it for *at least* 6 months, but most for much longer, some even for its entire lifetime.

3) Debian has become very easy to install. However the Debian installer can't be compared with the Kanotix one, which is a lot easier even for an absolute newbie. But even more important, Debian hardly has any tools to configure it, except for the ones which come by default with KDE or Gnome.

So you realize what my suggestion is, by now: why not release a version of Kanotix based on Etch, once it goes gold?

Such a release would be of great benefit to the whole Debian community and wouldn't (really) become obsolete until the next Debian Stable. Besides it should really be rock solid and free of any bugs.

I am not a developer, but I suppose it shouldn't be too difficult to do.

I for one would be very grateful and I'd go back to my old habits of generous donations if such a release were to become reality. Or I would simply buy it.

I expect a good amount of flames, but I don't mind, as I am pretty sure that my suggestion is a good one.

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Crest
Titel: RE: A Debian Stable (Etch) based release?  BeitragVerfasst am: 09.11.2006, 00:59 Uhr



Anmeldung: 03. Okt 2006
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Well, I'm using Kanotix because the good hardware support and quite easy installation (OK, Bughunter wasn't really my cup of tea, so I continued using Knoppix at that time). There is surely quite some time between the releases, but on the other hand you can make your daily or weekly dist-upgrade (when fast internet is available) and you'll always have a bleeding edge Debian Sid based system.

For me the 'one CD distribution' Kanotix is also more than enough, I have simply no need for downloading several ISOs to have a 'complete' Debian system. When I need something additional then I will apt-get install it. If someone wants Debian Etch then he/she is invited to install Etch. And actually I think Kanotix is one of the best Debian Sid based distributions. For this fact alone it's needed and shouldn't change to be a lightweight Etch distribution.
 
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Daniele
Titel: Re: RE: A Debian Stable (Etch) based release?  BeitragVerfasst am: 09.11.2006, 01:06 Uhr



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Crest hat folgendes geschrieben::

For me the 'one CD distribution' Kanotix is also more than enough, I have simply no need for downloading several ISOs to have a 'complete' Debian system.


I don't mean that Kanotix should turn into a 3 DVDs distribution like Etch. Just one single CD as it is now, but based on Stable.

Also I do not mean that such a release should be *instead* of the Sid based ones. It should be a one off (clearly)

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jackiebrown
Titel: RE: Re: RE: A Debian Stable (Etch) based release?  BeitragVerfasst am: 09.11.2006, 02:18 Uhr



Anmeldung: 13. Mai 2005
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No disrespect, but the nice thing about Kanotix is that it takes a "stable" snapshot of sid and puts it on a cd. I imagine that that is most of the work.

Etch, when it becomes stable, will always be stable and would need this (except for hardware support.)

I guess you could probably grab the release before the Etch freeze and make that your "Etch" cd. A simple dis-upgrade would bring you up-to-date and it should be a small one (only bug and security fixes.)

Of course, I believe you said that you have a 64 bit machine (like me) so this wouldn't work for you unless you go 32 bit.

I use 64 bit Debian installed from one of the net-installers. I don't care what some say, I notice a speed increase using the 64 bit branch.

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Daniele
Titel: Re: RE: Re: RE: A Debian Stable (Etch) based release?  BeitragVerfasst am: 09.11.2006, 02:42 Uhr



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jackiebrown hat folgendes geschrieben::


Etch, when it becomes stable, will always be stable and would need this (except for hardware support.)



Yes, but I believe that is the best part of Stable, except if you buy new hardware. Besides there will be backports in time.

Zitat:
Of course, I believe you said that you have a 64 bit machine (like me) so this wouldn't work for you unless you go 32 bit.


Indeed, that is the case, but considering that some software doesn't yet work in Debian 64 bit, I am considering going 32 bit.

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jackiebrown
Titel: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: A Debian Stable (Etch) based release?  BeitragVerfasst am: 09.11.2006, 03:07 Uhr



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I wrote the comment you quoted backwords (as you can probably tell by the context) --> should have been will always be stable and wouldn't need this

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anticapitalista
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 09.11.2006, 23:46 Uhr



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Actually what I would like to see is a debian sid kanotix that offers a choice of what to install ie kde or something lighter eg fluxbox so you have more control over you 'final' installed Kanotix or a sort of mini Kanotix, also sid-based.
I know there is the CPX mini (I used the old one for a while), but as far as I am aware, it is not officially supported.

There are going to be lots of computers presently using windoze with about 128-256 RAM that will become useless soon with the arrival of Vista. The present Kanotix is far too heavy for those sort of boxes. It would be nice if there was a Kanotix/sid to take the place of windoze on them.

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Crest
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 10.11.2006, 01:35 Uhr



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Well, M$ can't force the users to upgrade to Vista, they will just continue using their old Windows the long their applications are running. Win2000 is also my last M$ OS but I will surely continue using it for quite a while besides Linux. Runs since 2001 pretty stable without any reinstall and had never a virus Smilie
 
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piper
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 10.11.2006, 05:04 Uhr
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Why is the question ???

Why do people want Etch, please install Etch

Why do people want Stable, please install Sarge or wait for Etch to become Stable

Kanotix is SID which equals UNSTABLE

Everyone who reads about Kanotix before they download it should know it is based on SID.

I dist-upgrade EVERY SINGLE DAY with no problems, and "if" there is one, I go to IRC or here and it is "usually" a very quick fix.

If you run a system that can't afford to be "messed up" by running SID then maybe you should have not installed it.

I believe that Kanotix is a hell of alot more stable than some of the distro's out there period, I am a distro whore and have many distro's installed, I can't find ONE that beats Kanotix.

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jackiebrown
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 10.11.2006, 05:20 Uhr



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piper hat folgendes geschrieben::
Why is the question ???

Why do people want Etch, please install Etch

Why do people want Stable, please install Sarge or wait for Etch to become Stable


Piper, you know I usually agree with you, (in fact I stay in sid as well so no benefit for me either) but that is faulty logic. Because the next line of reasoning on this would be

Why do people want Sid, please install Sid

The benefit of Kanotix is the scripts and hardware support that are added on top of Debian Sid and that would hold true for all versions.

That said, I realize I am not a Kanotix developer.

I think a release right before the freeze would equate to almost the same thing as an Etch stable release as I mentioned earlier.

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piper
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 10.11.2006, 05:55 Uhr
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jackiebrown hat folgendes geschrieben::
piper hat folgendes geschrieben::
Why is the question ???

Why do people want Etch, please install Etch

Why do people want Stable, please install Sarge or wait for Etch to become Stable


Piper, you know I usually agree with you, (in fact I stay in sid as well so no benefit for me either) but that is faulty logic. Because the next line of reasoning on this would be

Why do people want Sid, please install Sid

The benefit of Kanotix is the scripts and hardware support that are added on top of Debian Sid and that would hold true for all versions.

That said, I realize I am not a Kanotix developer.

I think a release right before the freeze would equate to almost the same thing as an Etch stable release as I mentioned earlier.


I don't see it as faulty logic considering Kanotix is what 97-99% SID.

Yes I should have added an important part that you said about the scripts & hardware support, that is where Kanotix shines and is much better than ............

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Daniele
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 10.11.2006, 07:49 Uhr



Anmeldung: 23. Mai 2004
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piper hat folgendes geschrieben::
Why is the question ???

Why do people want Etch, please install Etch

Why do people want Stable, please install Sarge or wait for Etch to become Stable

Kanotix is SID which equals UNSTABLE

Everyone who reads about Kanotix before they download it should know it is based on SID.

I dist-upgrade EVERY SINGLE DAY with no problems, and "if" there is one, I go to IRC or here and it is "usually" a very quick fix.

If you run a system that can't afford to be "messed up" by running SID then maybe you should have not installed it.

I believe that Kanotix is a hell of alot more stable than some of the distro's out there period, I am a distro whore and have many distro's installed, I can't find ONE that beats Kanotix.


Yes, I have always known all that. I am only suggesting a one off change, something different for once. Or are we so much against any change?
As to the stability of Kanotix... I can't print, I can't read an automounted CD/DVD (apparently I don't have enough permissions, even as root)...
And not everybody likes the daily updates, with all the uncertainties they bring.
And please, let's stop with this fairy tale that Sid is oh so stable.
I have been using Debian for longer than I care to remember, since the early times of Libranet, and I know people who have been using it for much longer than me. A Sid dist-upgrade can go fine one day, but bork your system beyond recovery the next. If you don't believe me, use apt-listbugs and you'll be very surprised.

In any case, there was a time when, due to the very slow release cycle of Debian, Sid could be reasonably stable for (long) whiles.
That is no longer the case, as the Debian release cycle has become a lot faster.

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wegface
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 10.11.2006, 11:17 Uhr



Anmeldung: 02. Nov 2005
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I hear Ubuntu is warm this time of year.....
Mit den Augen rollen

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Daniele
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 10.11.2006, 11:23 Uhr



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wegface hat folgendes geschrieben::
I hear Ubuntu is warm this time of year.....
Mit den Augen rollen


So what?

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slam
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 10.11.2006, 11:35 Uhr



Anmeldung: 05. Okt 2004
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Zitat:
A Sid dist-upgrade can go fine one day, but bork your system beyond recovery the next. If you don't believe me, use apt-listbugs and you'll be very surprised.

Well, only the person not using correctly and/or not understanding apt can "bork a system behind recovery". A proper prepared and done dist-upgrade is never a problem, specially if you read our daily news before and follow the fixes we publish (if they are necessary).

Ah, I forgot: Non-Debian dirty packages (or - even worse - manually circumventing the package management by installing in a non-apt way) can bork a system behind repair.

Greetings,
Chris

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devil
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 10.11.2006, 11:40 Uhr
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...and apt-listbugs only puzzles you.
i used it for a while, ignored it for a while without doing any harm. purged it.
dist-upgrade dayly and i havn't borked the system 'beyond repair' since being a real newb.

greetz
devil

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Zuletzt bearbeitet von devil am 10.11.2006, 22:11 Uhr, insgesamt ein Mal bearbeitet
 
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slam
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 10.11.2006, 11:50 Uhr



Anmeldung: 05. Okt 2004
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Besides all that and back on topic:

Kano was talking about the possibility to prepare a Kanotix-improved Etch after it has reached it's final shape. He did not promise anything, however.

So, stay tuned - your wish may come true. Winken

Greetings,
Chris

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Daniele
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 10.11.2006, 12:00 Uhr



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slam hat folgendes geschrieben::
Besides all that and back on topic:

Kano was talking about the possibility to prepare a Kanotix-improved Etch after it has reached it's final shape. He did not promise anything, however.

So, stay tuned - your wish may come true. Winken

Greetings,
Chris


Very well, thanks. So my idea is not so crazy after all Smilie

Etch is arguably going to be the best Debian release ever. With Kanotix improvements it could be super.

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hubi
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 10.11.2006, 13:03 Uhr



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Hope, good old sid will continue to be the base for the traditional Kanotix. I still need some things fixed in the kernel for intel hda sound on my new laptop (there is still a problem with acpi and irq, and i do not want to run noacpi).

Stable Etch will be great for most of today's hardware but probably not for future hardware. Nothing beats sid for that, and nothing beats Kanotix to make it work easily.

hubi

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piper
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 10.11.2006, 16:15 Uhr
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Daniele hat folgendes geschrieben::

And please, let's stop with this fairy tale that Sid is oh so stable.


Fairy Tale, Kanotix is NO Fairy Tale ?

no problems, and if I do, it is fixed within 15 minutes, I too ran libranet since day one, what does that have to do with anything ?


Don't download and install a distro (SID) if you want testing, stable, this thread makes no sence to me

This reminds me of people telling bill gates that we want M$ open source cause there are too much spy/malware/virri, etc......... simple solution is to change what you don't like (distro), if everyone bitches about Kanotix being SID, then why use it, I agree with the boob..... err..... ubuntu comment.

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slam
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 10.11.2006, 16:48 Uhr



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Haha, thanks Piper for the inspiration - welcome to the world of BOOBUNTU:



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piper
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 10.11.2006, 17:28 Uhr
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slam hat folgendes geschrieben::
Haha, thanks Piper for the inspiration - welcome to the world of BOOBUNTU:



hehe, just wanted to see my babe again Smilie thnx Winken

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The_Seeker
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 10.11.2006, 17:42 Uhr



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Zitat:

hehe, just wanted to see my babe again Smilie thnx Winken

Bloody hell! It's like a dead heat in a zeppelin race.
 
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eco2geek
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 10.11.2006, 22:07 Uhr



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Ya know, guys, insulting Daniele doesn't exactly help her, or help Kanotix's reputation. IIRC, this "It's always worked for me, so what's your problem?" and "You're so stupid, why don't you try Ubuntu" attitude is why some people here started using Kanotix instead of Debian proper.

But, hey, if you Kanotix "team members" like to alienate people, keep it up.

Now, as far as not being able to print or access CDs goes, I'm not sure dropping to testing from unstable would help you much, Daniele -- I just installed stock Debian testing and upgraded it to unstable, and there isn't that much of a difference between the two, currently.

It might make more sense to back up your data and do a clean install of 2006-01-RC4.
 
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wegface
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 10.11.2006, 22:24 Uhr



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eco2geek: well thats not exactly what was written above, no need to spice things up. I personally meant no real disrespect with my comment- i simply think someone who wants debian etch- and says its the best distro ever, should install etch or ubuntu.
Personally i have etch installed as a backup system incase anything else goes wrong. But i cant see what use a kanotix etch would be- but im not Kano so....

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