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snvv
Titel: First questions & comments  BeitragVerfasst am: 17.05.2006, 09:33 Uhr



Anmeldung: 17. Mai 2006
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Hello Forum !!!!
My first post here!!! : )

I would like to ask some general questionsand make some comments about the KANOTIX.

1. I have 2 hd (had & hdb). had is for windows. hbd is for linux.

I installed kanotix in hdb BUT it writes the MBR of hda (in the windows disk), which is something that I don’t want. I don’t think that there is a way in that problem (is there?) but it would be nice in future editions of the program to give the user the freedom to select the disk where the MBR will be written.

2. I used synaptic and tried to install drivers for my Nvidia 7174 card but the dependency fails for the Nvidia legancy-glx


The good points now. It recognized my web camera out of the box. (not yet the usb TV-FM card) and it sets the refresh rate for my screen to 100MHz while ALL other linuxes stop at 85

My router was configured in ½ min and I liked that it was not autoconfiqured after the installation


PS. I use the latest KANOTIX-2006-EASTER-RC4

What I really want is to choose the OS to work from bios, or in an other way I don’t want the windows hd (MBR or anything else) to be touched by linux and the opposite)
 
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Mike Shepard
Titel: RE: First questions & comments  BeitragVerfasst am: 17.05.2006, 10:19 Uhr



Anmeldung: 20. Mai 2005
Beiträge: 250

Zitat:
2. I used synaptic and tried to install drivers for my Nvidia 7174 card but the dependency fails for the Nvidia legancy-glx

have you ran the fix-nvidia-debian.sh script after install for to enable your card?


Zitat:
What I really want is to choose the OS to work from bios, or in an other way I don’t want the windows hd (MBR or anything else) to be touched by linux and the opposite)

Sorry but you need to install a bootloader in either the mbr or hd to be able to choose between multiple os'. There is no other way around this other than using a boot disk.

Hope this helps

Cheers,
Mike

_________________
"It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." -The Blues Brothers (1980)
 
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devil
Titel: RE: First questions & comments  BeitragVerfasst am: 17.05.2006, 10:27 Uhr
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snvv,
there is only one mbr. you can of course choose to install grub into your root partition.
nvidia drivers are best installed with a script. for that to run, start knxcc from konsole or go to kcontrol kanotix and install nvidia there.

btw: the fast majority of users write grub to mbr, and i´ve done so many times without a single problem.


greetz
devil[/code]

_________________
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Host/Kernel/OS "devilsbox" running[2.6.19-rc1-git5-kanotix-1KANOTIX-2006-01-RC4 ]
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Mike Shepard
Titel: RE: First questions & comments  BeitragVerfasst am: 17.05.2006, 10:37 Uhr



Anmeldung: 20. Mai 2005
Beiträge: 250

For the record, I've never installed grub onto the root hd partion, I've always installed to mbr and never had a problem either.

-Mike

_________________
"It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." -The Blues Brothers (1980)
 
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snvv
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 17.05.2006, 10:56 Uhr



Anmeldung: 17. Mai 2006
Beiträge: 13

Thank you all for your answers. But probably because of my not so good English I was not very clear.

I would like to write KANOTIX in the MBR of the second disk (hdb). The MBR of had is written by windows. Then from bios I can choose which disk will be used from boot.

In the linux disk (hdb) I have vectorlinux & pclinuxos therefore the grub will be useful.

What I don’t want is to write the MBR of the windows disk (hda)).

Once I had to reinstall windows when I uninstalled an other linux from the disk and the fixmbr didn’t worked. Thus I don’t like to install again 50GB windows programs.

Thanks for the help.

I was looking in KANOTIX lilo and Grub. But I was not able to change the mbr from had to hdb
 
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Mike Shepard
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 17.05.2006, 11:18 Uhr



Anmeldung: 20. Mai 2005
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You cannot choose which drive to boot from the bios, you need a bootloader on your primary dirve to choose which drive or partion to boot from. The only around this without touching the mbr of hda (your windows drive) is to use a boot disk to boot, which can be a real pain. Why not just add your windows drive to grub or use a windows bootloader to reside on your windows drive, there are many. But with the live cd grub is fairly easy to reinstall if overwritten by a windows install, a windows bootloader would also solve this problem, so you could install it or adjust it from windows. You cannot install to the hdb mbr as the bios will not look there for booting at all, unless instructed by a program (grub for ex) to do so. Does this help?

-Mike

_________________
"It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." -The Blues Brothers (1980)
 
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snvv
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 17.05.2006, 11:34 Uhr



Anmeldung: 17. Mai 2006
Beiträge: 13

Mike Shepard hat folgendes geschrieben::
You cannot choose which drive to boot from the bios, you need a bootloader on your primary dirve to choose which drive or partion to boot from. The only around this without touching the mbr of hda (your windows drive) is to use a boot disk to boot, which can be a real pain. Why not just add your windows drive to grub or use a windows bootloader to reside on your windows drive, there are many. But with the live cd grub is fairly easy to reinstall if overwritten by a windows install, a windows bootloader would also solve this problem, so you could install it or adjust it from windows. You cannot install to the hdb mbr as the bios will not look there for booting at all, unless instructed by a program (grub for ex) to do so. Does this help?

-Mike


I can choose it. I have done that in the past. From bios I can choose the hda or hdb. So when I want to run windows I select in bios hda and when I want to run linux I select hdb. For that I have to make linux to write the MBR of my second disk (hdb). However KANOTIX has no option for that and writes automatically the MBR of hda
So when from bios I choose hdb to boot I get that 99999999999999999999999999 when I choose hda I get the grub menu and from there I can boot in windows or KANOTIX. However if I un-install KANOTIX then I will have to run fixmbr in my windows disk (hda) and that is what I don’t want to do


Therefore what I need during the installation of KANOTIX is a way to write the MBR of my second disk hdb and not the hda (which seems to be the default in the installation program)

PS. Vectorlinux, pclinuxos & the latest version of MEPIS (not the previous) take care of it. Is a way to do that in KANOTIX???
 
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Mike Shepard
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 17.05.2006, 11:38 Uhr



Anmeldung: 20. Mai 2005
Beiträge: 250

I am sorry, i have never seen that option in a bios before. So, if that is the case then why not write it in the root partion of the drive instead of the mbr? The installer does offer that as an option, and upon selecting hdb to boot in your bios, it should load grub off of the drive then and give you your normal menu.

-Mike

_________________
"It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." -The Blues Brothers (1980)
 
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slh
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 17.05.2006, 11:46 Uhr



Anmeldung: 16. Aug 2004
Beiträge: 1905

Some BIOS versions offer that option, but it is nevertheless seriously flawed as neither Linux nor Windows NT care about the BIOS' representation of disk order. If you don't want grub to be installed in the mbr of your primary disk (and by definition that's the only mbr), you'll need to install the bootsector into your partition and take care to start that somehow.
 
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snvv
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 17.05.2006, 12:03 Uhr



Anmeldung: 17. Mai 2006
Beiträge: 13

slh hat folgendes geschrieben::
Some BIOS versions offer that option, but it is nevertheless seriously flawed as neither Linux nor Windows NT care about the BIOS' representation of disk order. If you don't want grub to be installed in the mbr of your primary disk (and by definition that's the only mbr), you'll need to install the bootsector into your partition and take care to start that somehow.


Thank you all again for all the answers

Ok I can write in hdb1 (I have tried it) but then I have no grub.

If I do that how I can initiate KANOTIX? (probably from livecd? I don’t know)

EDIT: I think I have find a possible solution (I will try it the evening)
From liveCD
# mount /media/hdb1
Now rewrite Grub to MBR:
# grub-install --recheck --no-floppy --root-directory=/media/hdb1 /dev/hdb

Is it possible this to work???
 
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maryno
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 17.05.2006, 12:27 Uhr



Anmeldung: 27. Mar 2006
Beiträge: 1

hi snvv,

you can try to boot linux with windows boot manager if you have win xp/2000.

1. install linux on the second drive (eg hdb1)
2. install lilo/grub in mbr of hdb
3. copy the mbr to file:
# dd if=/dev/hdb of=linboot.bin bs=512 count=1
4. copy linboot.bin to removable media (don't rewrite ntfs partition from linux, take floppy disk, usb-stick or so)
5 boot windows
6 copy linboot.bin to / of windows drive
5. edit c:\boot.ini ( add c:\linboot.bin="linux" at the end)
6 reboot end check if it works
 
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schnorrer
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 17.05.2006, 12:33 Uhr



Anmeldung: 09. Jan 2006
Beiträge: 1721

with all newer Bios's boot can do from every bootable device somteimes only from within the bios as before, or during the coldboot by pressing F11. and there is more than 1 bootable device.

Sometimes usefull when there is a hd with an os you would not change in any way.

When you have an other hdfor checking several things(OS,Software) and no decide to use the 2nd HD along with your first, but you do not want to change anyting on both HD's, this optional BIOS-Bootmenu is very fine.
 
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Mike Shepard
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 17.05.2006, 12:38 Uhr



Anmeldung: 20. Mai 2005
Beiträge: 250

Seems like you are making more work for yourself when you could install grub or a third-party windows boot-loader to do what you want. If you don't want linux touching your windows partition you could just google for a windows bootloader, there are many, and it would do what you seem to need, rather than loading the bios all the time to choose a linux bootloader or load windows. Just my opinion but it seems that would be a much simplier solution for you. Winken

Cheers,
Mike

_________________
"It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." -The Blues Brothers (1980)
 
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drb
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 17.05.2006, 12:42 Uhr



Anmeldung: 03. Jul 2004
Beiträge: 525

Zitat:
it sets the refresh rate for my screen to 100MHz while ALL other linuxes stop at 85


I'd assumed it was the video driver that was giving this vast selection of resolutions and refresh rates. Unless you have a Matrox card, it suggest something else brings up this selection list with Easter-RC4. Does any one know what brings up this selection list and can I add it to my 2005-04 dist-upgraded install?

drb

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schnorrer
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 17.05.2006, 12:58 Uhr



Anmeldung: 09. Jan 2006
Beiträge: 1721

@mike, shure but its a nice option I want never miss. no more changing to bios-setup when I want to boot from CD, only pressing F11.

@svny. 100Hz is done while your monitor could do this Refreshrate. But can chaned at boot by adding vrate=75 or 90 debends on your TV-system. Pal best vrate is 75 and ntsc best is 90. No flickering while watching tv.
 
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rich.bradshaw
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 17.05.2006, 13:01 Uhr



Anmeldung: 14. Jan 2006
Beiträge: 287

why don't you want grub on your windows drive MBR? If you primarily use Windows but sometimes want linux and don't want to see the menu all the time you could make the grub menu time out in a smal amount of time, eg 1 second. Once you have pressed a key it stays, so when you want Linux just press down really quick and you can use linuix, but doing nothing wont display the menu hardly at all
 
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snvv
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 17.05.2006, 13:05 Uhr



Anmeldung: 17. Mai 2006
Beiträge: 13

schnorrer hat folgendes geschrieben::
@mike, shure but its a nice option I want never miss. no more changing to bios-setup when I want to boot from CD, only pressing F11.

@svny. 100Hz is done while your monitor could do this Refreshrate. But can chaned at boot by adding vrate=75 or 90 debends on your TV-system. Pal best vrate is 75 and ntsc best is 90. No flickering while watching tv.


I am just fine with the 100Hz. This is the correct bumber for my card-screen any way. I was suprized why other linuxes use to set up at 85. So this is a + for KANOTIX & + for recognizing my webcam (no other linux did this)
 
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snvv
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 17.05.2006, 13:09 Uhr



Anmeldung: 17. Mai 2006
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rich.bradshaw hat folgendes geschrieben::
why don't you want grub on your windows drive MBR? If you primarily use Windows but sometimes want linux and don't want to see the menu all the time you could make the grub menu time out in a smal amount of time, eg 1 second. Once you have pressed a key it stays, so when you want Linux just press down really quick and you can use linuix, but doing nothing wont display the menu hardly at all


I said that before. If I write the hda MBR and un-install KANOTIX then I will have to run fixmbr to get windows again. fixmbr most of the times work but if not then i will loose more than 1 week for reinstalling. Any way there is no way to touch the MBR of the disk for windows. Thats why i use a second HD just to leave without trouble the first one (win)
 
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snvv
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 17.05.2006, 13:10 Uhr



Anmeldung: 17. Mai 2006
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maryno hat folgendes geschrieben::
hi snvv,

you can try to boot linux with windows boot manager if you have win xp/2000.

1. install linux on the second drive (eg hdb1)
2. install lilo/grub in mbr of hdb
3. copy the mbr to file:
# dd if=/dev/hdb of=linboot.bin bs=512 count=1
4. copy linboot.bin to removable media (don't rewrite ntfs partition from linux, take floppy disk, usb-stick or so)
5 boot windows
6 copy linboot.bin to / of windows drive
5. edit c:\boot.ini ( add c:\linboot.bin="linux" at the end)
6 reboot end check if it works


If I could do that (install lilo/grub in mbr of hdb) then there is no point for that post.
The problem is that I cannot (there is no option) install in hdb.
If I do that then I have no problem.


Zuletzt bearbeitet von snvv am 17.05.2006, 13:15 Uhr, insgesamt 2 Male bearbeitet
 
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rich.bradshaw
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 17.05.2006, 13:11 Uhr



Anmeldung: 14. Jan 2006
Beiträge: 287

I've never had a problem with fixmbr, I've never considered it a risk. Is it possible for it not to work? I would be interested to know, as I don't want to take risks I don't know about!
 
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Mike Shepard
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 17.05.2006, 13:31 Uhr



Anmeldung: 20. Mai 2005
Beiträge: 250

Zitat:
I said that before. If I write the hda MBR and un-install KANOTIX then I will have to run fixmbr to get windows again. fixmbr most of the times work but if not then i will loose more than 1 week for reinstalling. Any way there is no way to touch the MBR of the disk for windows. Thats why i use a second HD just to leave without trouble the first one (win)


I think you miss my point. There are bootloaders (like grub) for windows, that are installed as an .exe and can be updated changed from windows (or linux via wine). No need for any linux bootloaders like grub. Linux would not touch your windows drive, and if you uninstall a linux distro it will not affect windows or the bootloader. There a free ones you can find via google. I think that is a viable solution to your problem. I hope this clarifies my idea.

-Mike

_________________
"It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses." -The Blues Brothers (1980)
 
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devil
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 17.05.2006, 13:35 Uhr
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snvv,
the option are:
install grub to mbr= nono in your case
install grub to root-partition= for you, cause grub goes to hdb1

greetz
devil

_________________
<<We are Xorg - resistance is futile - you will be axximilated>>

Host/Kernel/OS "devilsbox" running[2.6.19-rc1-git5-kanotix-1KANOTIX-2006-01-RC4 ]
CPU Info AMD Athlon 64 3000+ clocked at [ 803.744 MHz ]
 
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snvv
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 17.05.2006, 14:56 Uhr



Anmeldung: 17. Mai 2006
Beiträge: 13

devil28 hat folgendes geschrieben::
snvv,
the option are:
install grub to mbr= nono in your case
install grub to root-partition= for you, cause grub goes to hdb1

greetz
devil


Thank you
If i do that (I did in fact) then how i can boot in KAOTIX? I cant figure a way arount this!!!
 
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slh
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 17.05.2006, 15:58 Uhr



Anmeldung: 16. Aug 2004
Beiträge: 1905

Just get your bootloader of choice to boot the bootsector of hdb1 - or find some other ways to boot the linux kernel, but that way it doesn't touch anything but its own partition.
 
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snvv
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 18.05.2006, 08:58 Uhr



Anmeldung: 17. Mai 2006
Beiträge: 13

rich.bradshaw hat folgendes geschrieben::
I've never had a problem with fixmbr, I've never considered it a risk. Is it possible for it not to work? I would be interested to know, as I don't want to take risks I don't know about!


Is not more dangerous than other thinks in OS’s but once I lost 3 year work because of corrupted files. It was my PhD work. You know the Merphy low (if something is to go wrong then it will go wrong). In 2 hours I lost 2 disks in 2 different PC’s and the backup CD’s did work at 100%. I lost several important files.

From then I use 3 backups & I am very very careful with my disks.


To answer your questions. If you really have important things in your PC then keep multiple back ups and update that quite frequently. On the other hand if you can avoid that dual boot (grub, lilo, ntldr) better to avoid it.
 
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