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Titel: Updated today ( 01 June 06) and Xorg is stuffed - again
 Verfasst am: 01.06.2006, 03:30 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 17. Nov 2004
Beiträge: 87
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Just updated this AM and now system wont finish booting - gets to loading kdm and then hangs trying to load(?) xdm.
Obviously I can access everything via LiveCD but what file(s) need editing this time?
Had similar problem with Xorg some time ago but have forgotten what was the "fix"
Thanks
master_b |
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Titel: RE: Updated today ( 01 June 06) and Xorg is stuffed - again
Verfasst am: 01.06.2006, 04:31 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 12. Mar 2005
Beiträge: 1005
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see if this thread helps:
http://kanotix.com/PNphpBB2-viewtopic-t-18581.html
I'm getting more suspicious that many dist-upgrade failures are due to incomplete dist-upgrades of one type or another. That's the ones when there is no known issue.
That's also assuming a fairly standard system, kde, not some other desktop manager.
And assuming not 64 bit.
the last xorg fix was a one time fix, so if you already applied that to this install that's not the issue. |
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Titel: RE: Updated today ( 01 June 06) and Xorg is stuffed - again
Verfasst am: 01.06.2006, 04:36 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 07. Dez 2005
Beiträge: 369
Wohnort: Port Angeles, Wa. USA
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| I'm leaning towards the position of not DU-ing when things are hunky-dory the way they are. I've had too many experiences where doing so has trashed a working system. I think I'll just let things go for a while I do it later when all the freak-outs have subsided, & sid is relatively safe (if there is such a thing) I'd rather not spend more time on a live-cd trying to correct things than using a working system, if you know what I mean. |
_________________
illegitimati non carborundum
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Titel: RE: Updated today ( 01 June 06) and Xorg is stuffed - again
Verfasst am: 01.06.2006, 04:58 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 08. Dez 2005
Beiträge: 300
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We've already had several freak-outs already:
for starters
1) KDE 3.4 to 3.5
2) Compiler changes from gcc 3.x to 4
3) Xorg 6.8/6.9 to 7.0 |
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Titel: RE: Updated today ( 01 June 06) and Xorg is stuffed - again
Verfasst am: 01.06.2006, 05:03 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 26. Jun 2005
Beiträge: 389
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| That's a much wiser position - DU only when things have settled. I have 2 systems that I upgrade regularly and alternately from week to week. That way I have a working system available at all times. And, I have a third that I don't upgrade for around 1 year, just as a failsafe. All these take up 3 5GB partitions - a small price for being able to experiment without work being interrupted. |
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Titel: RE: Updated today ( 01 June 06) and Xorg is stuffed - again
Verfasst am: 01.06.2006, 05:54 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 12. Mar 2005
Beiträge: 1005
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just back up the root directory partition if in doubt.
then restore if it fails, takes about 30-40 minutes total, plus you have a backup.
But different ways will work for different people, I worry more about waiting too long and then not being able to upgrade safely, though I haven't seen that issue yet.
My goal is to be running 2005-4 totally upto date for as long as possible, then mabye turning off debian sid at some point and just using testing from then on. I'll see how it goes, so far so good, every install I have works and is upgraded, I made a script to carry me over the bumps of xorg 7 and hal/udev, but otherwise the fixes are relatively trivial so far.
But I do do the full backup on my main work box now just in case, I can't afford failure, and it's a good excuse to do a backup anyway, I was always bad about that.
I would like to start trying to figure out the common thread that ties failed upgrades together, that would be useful. It's not hardware specific since I've done this on different platforms now, all with the same end results, successful upgrade as long as tweaks are applied and upgrade is done successfully.
Things I've noted: forget 64 bit for at least a year if you want to dist-upgrade I suspect
different desktop managers may or may not cause issues if it's the main one.
incomplete upgrades stopped by dpkg errors are not completed
fixes are not applied
It takes some work to keep current, that's not really a practical thing long term, but it is educational, and with good backups it really doesn't matter that much when something goes bad, just restore and wait for sid to stabilize, then upgrade.
Plus of course, always check the news and irc for problems before starting if you haven't done one for a while, it's hard to keep up. |
_________________
Read more on dist-upgrades using du-fixes-h2.sh script.
New: rdiff-backup script
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Titel: Updated today ( 01 June 06) and Xorg is stuffed - again
Verfasst am: 01.06.2006, 06:16 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 17. Nov 2004
Beiträge: 87
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Thanks for replies guys.
Have temporarily "solved" problem by booting Kanotix 2006 Easter rc2 live cd and saving my config to a persistent home.
Then installed Opera 9 beta via Klik and copied accross my existing Opera bookmarks, my Firefox bookmarks and my Thunderbird cofig files and saved my config again.
Tried to install Pan via Klik but it won't run.
Only other problems with this setup are that there are no drivers for my old b/w canon printer ( a problem with the orig files on Easter rc2) and my Network Card settings (DHCP on boot) don't save to my config though they should.
At least I can access the Web and Email while I try to fix my HD install.
Will post further as (if) problem(s) are solved.
Bill |
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 01.06.2006, 13:26 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 24. Mai 2005
Beiträge: 354
Wohnort: Nashville
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h2 wrote:
Zitat:
I made a script to carry me over the bumps of xorg 7 and hal/udev
Is this something that you would be willing to share?
I too have been thinking about "testing". I love Kanotix but there is a price to be paid for using sid. Perhaps when the final version of 2006 arrives, I'll change my /etc/apt/sources.list file. There was a favorable review of "etch" on NewsForge two days ago.
http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=06/05/25/146242
By the way, having the /home directory on a separate partition has saved me much anguish. |
_________________
Debian Social Contract
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 01.06.2006, 14:43 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 03. Jul 2004
Beiträge: 525
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Bill,
I didn't find anything to d-u today and it's been some time since an xorg update. What version of xorg7 did you have the problem with?
drb |
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Kernel 2.6.21-slh-up-7
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 01.06.2006, 20:29 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 12. Mar 2005
Beiträge: 1005
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michael7, this is the script homepage:
http://techpatterns.com/forums/about736.html
Please note that most of its features are for bringing 2005-4 and cebit to current status.
The script will not correct user errors like entering 'y' to use new config files during dist-upgrade. Current options are to retain your configs in all cases except fonts, which most users won't see unless upgrading from earlier versions, not easter. Always select 'n' with the exception of the font.conf option.
I just added the /etc/apt/preferences line feed add fix, and the multicd fix, version 1.2.0 has them. Please note: I have not tested this script on easter. You should not need the xorg option on easter kanotix however.
I'll test it later today, make sure you use 1.2.0 of the script. It also has improved du handling options, now you can do install -f, dist-upgrade again, continue, or exit script if you think there is a problem.
As always, if you depend on your install and have not dist-upgraded in a while, please do a full backup using rdiff-backup to another partition or drive. The faqs have a backup item that explains the procedure.
I wrote an rdiff-backup script with all the required exclusions as a separate file and so on but since it's specific to my setup it won't do people much good to use it. |
Zuletzt bearbeitet von h2 am 01.06.2006, 21:01 Uhr, insgesamt ein Mal bearbeitet
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 01.06.2006, 20:57 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 21. Jan 2006
Beiträge: 185
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h2:
Do you use rdiff-backup to back up your root directory?
Curious how you do it...I've been trying to choose between rdiff-backup, dirvish, and duplicity. TrueImage doesn't seem to work that well w/ LVM partitions and I think I only need it for my boot partition... |
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Titel: backing up root
Verfasst am: 01.06.2006, 21:59 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 14. Apr 2006
Beiträge: 60
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Hi, kenyee,
I use rdiff-backup to backup everthing on a couple of different computers (this one to both an external usb drive, and over the net to a SUSE box). It's worked nearly flawlessly for me so far (notwithstanding the fact that the rdiff-backup-statistics command doesn't seem to be working on the newest release, apparently due to it relying on some latest python release, which hasn't yet been installed here).
When I want to back up my entire root directory (including my /home directory, but excluding a few directories living in /home), I just issue (as root, so I have write priveleges on the external usb drive) the following command (in a script in my home directory, as I'm lazy and don't want to write the whole thing every time):
Code:
#!/bin/sh
rdiff-backup --exclude '/tmp/*' --exclude '/proc/*' --exclude '/sys/*' --exclude '/media/*/*' --exclude '/home/gardyloo/fob/*' --exclude '/home/gardyloo/Desktop/vids/*' / /media/sda2/rdiff-backups/root-backup
I have a very similar (only the destination directory is on another machine) script if I want to back up off-site.
This was taken almost verbatim from the excellent little tutorial in the wiki about rdiff-backup. Also, if you google for "rdiff-backup examples" it'll take you to the homepage of rdiff-backup and give lots of very useful examples of other things you can do.
There are some web-based frontends out there, too, but I've never really got them to work. I think, too, that "keep" is a KDE frontend, but, frankly, the command line is so easy on this one that I just use that.
If anyone ends up using Dirvish, please let me know. I've been following their mailing list lately, and it looks like a very nice tool. So far, though, I'm totally happy with rdiff-backup, especially after the pain of mondo. |
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Titel: RE: backing up root
Verfasst am: 01.06.2006, 22:51 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 12. Mar 2005
Beiträge: 1005
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I tested my xorg7-h2.sh upgrade script on a 2005-4 install, and it seems to be working fine. Massive du on an older install, no issues. That one was xorg 7.0.14 to xorg 7.0.20, so I didn't need to use the update xorg parts, but it doesn't matter if you do if you've already done it.
kenyee, yes, I do, pretty much same way as above, except I use an exclude list for the directories:
:: exclude list:
Zitat:
/tmp/*
/proc/*
/sys/*
/home/*
/media/*/*
There's a limit of how many excludes you can put in the actual command line, I think it was 5 or something, so using a list is easier.
saved as excludes.txt
then
rdiff-backup --exclude-globbing-filelist /home/username/bin/scripts/excludes.txt / /media/sdd1/bu-root
NOTE: this assumes your /home is on another partition of course. |
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Titel: Thank you, h2
Verfasst am: 01.06.2006, 23:28 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 24. Mai 2005
Beiträge: 354
Wohnort: Nashville
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h2,
That is a great piece of work. Thank you for sharing with us. I enjoy your posts because you always teach me something.
michael |
_________________
Debian Social Contract
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Titel: Re: RE: Updated today ( 01 June 06) and Xorg is stuffed - ag
Verfasst am: 02.06.2006, 00:01 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 09. Aug 2004
Beiträge: 121
Wohnort: Brisbane Australia
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h2 hat folgendes geschrieben::
My goal is to be running 2005-4 totally upto date for as long as possible, then mabye turning off debian sid at some point and just using testing from then on.
Can I ask how to do this? Is it as easy as swapping the Pin-Priority on the unstable and testing releases in the /etc/apt/preferences file? I starting to think I should upgrade against the testing distribution but I would still like the ability to manually upgrade a specific package from unstable (but not X or KDE!) |
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Titel: RE: Re: RE: Updated today ( 01 June 06) and Xorg is stuffed
Verfasst am: 02.06.2006, 00:09 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 12. Mar 2005
Beiträge: 1005
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I haven't tried it yet, and I would strongly recommend not trying it on your main install.
All I would do is comment out the sid stuff in /etc/apt/sources.list
to manually upgrade specific packages you'd just uncomment out those lines for that update.
But you'd always have to test each upgrade carefully to make sure the sid package didn't try to pull in all of kde or xorg or whatever.
I'll test it one of these days, but not yet, too much stuff is happening with kde and xorg to settle down yet I think.
I'm thinking a while after kde 4 comes out and is in testing maybe. |
_________________
Read more on dist-upgrades using du-fixes-h2.sh script.
New: rdiff-backup script
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Titel: RE: Re: RE: Updated today ( 01 June 06) and Xorg is stuffed
Verfasst am: 02.06.2006, 06:08 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 12. Mar 2005
Beiträge: 1005
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For anyone who has used the script in the past, I changed the name, so you'd need to get the new version, it's called du-fixes-h2.sh
It also now checks for updates of itself before proceeding. Make sure it's version 1.5 or greater for that feature, and the latest du fixes.
You can get it here. I've tested it a few times with the latest fixes and everything had dist-upgraded fine.
http://techpatterns.com/forums/about736.html |
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Titel: RE: Re: RE: Updated today ( 01 June 06) and Xorg is stuffed
Verfasst am: 02.06.2006, 16:53 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 21. Jan 2006
Beiträge: 185
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thanks gardyloo and h2 for your rdiff-backup exclusions list 
I looked at duplicity again (it clearly says it's not stable and dirvish looks more painful than it's worth, so I'll probably just use rdiff-backup.
gardyloo: you said you used an external usb drive and I do the same. Is yours formatted w/ NTFS like mine is? Or did you put a Linux filesystem on it? I'm wondering if rdiff-backup works if you put the backup files on a non-Linux filesystem (whether it'll maintain the security attributes of the files, etc. which is why I've been using tar up to this point)... |
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Titel: RE: Re: RE: Updated today ( 01 June 06) and Xorg is stuffed
Verfasst am: 02.06.2006, 19:23 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 12. Mar 2005
Beiträge: 1005
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you can't write to ntfs from linux safely.
You can't make files > 4 gig in fat32, so for dependable backup, use ext3 with a windows ext2 driver
this one is well regarded:
http://www.fs-driver.org/
Note, from the faqs on that site, if you try using an external drive with more than one partition you will probably run into errors.
Another very cheap and easy way to go is to just get a removable harddrive tray and just mount and unmount that.
I'm using firewire currently, but as soon as I get around to it I'll switch to a removable internal harddrive, that's faster, and more reliable long term. |
_________________
Read more on dist-upgrades using du-fixes-h2.sh script.
New: rdiff-backup script
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 02.06.2006, 20:14 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 14. Apr 2006
Beiträge: 60
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Hi, Kenyee,
Zitat:
gardyloo: you said you used an external usb drive and I do the same. Is yours formatted w/ NTFS like mine is? Or did you put a Linux filesystem on it? I'm wondering if rdiff-backup works if you put the backup files on a non-Linux filesystem (whether it'll maintain the security attributes of the files, etc. which is why I've been using tar up to this point)...
My external USB drive has several ext3 partitions on it, as h2 said. I've successfully backed up ext2, ext3, and reiserfs file systems to the ext3-formatted partitions on this drive (and on another over a LAN). I could try backing up to an NTFS partition just for grins, but I'm a little hesitant. Most sites claim that NTFS can't be written to successfully from linux; a few claim that it's really no problem, and that the problems are overstated and have been dealt with for years. I'm not entirely sure who to believe, but I'd rather err on the safe side, and back up consistently to something I'm pretty sure will work, and leave backing up to an NTFS partition for experimentation. If you need to resize your NTFS, or put another filesystem on that external USB drive, and need an open-source program to do it, I'd use GParted. Their latest livecd version seems a little flaky with xwindowing (I usually have to reboot a couple of times and end up using the lowest requirements -- xvesa, which is fine for a quick partition change), but is getting better all the time, and things like copying and moving partitions are getting more and more supported by that project.
I've also tried backing up an NTFS filesystem onto an ext3 one, using rdiff-backup running under Cygwin in WindowsXP. That invariably crashes when getting to system files which are being used by Windows, but it successfully backs up the data which resides on the XP partitions. I haven't yet tried backing up an NTFS filesystem from a running linux system (as from a dual-boot into Kanotix, or from the liveCD). It might work all right, but links might be screwed up. I think that the rdiff-backup developers are working on such things, but am not entirely sure what the status is.
In short, I haven't tried doing what you propose. If you get it to work, great! Let us know! But compatibility between the *nix filesystems and NTFS is really lacking, and I'm wary of losing my important files to something silly. I'd do what h2 says, and at the very least, create an ext3 system on which to house your backups. It's worked for me.
Regards,
gardyloo
P.S. Not that anyone needs such advice, but my external drive is just a regular SATA hard drive (a Seagate, I think), as might go in a desktop, which is shoved into a cheapo KingWin hdd enclosure. I've been very happy with its size and capabilities. It seems much less flaky than the pre-made external drives from, say, Maxtor (which I've used a lot, too), and MUCH less expensive. Those "pre-housed" drives have one advantage: they usually come with Retrospect, which is useful for Windows systems; they also sometimes come with USB AND firewire connections. But I'm happy with my rdiff-backup! |
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 02.06.2006, 23:50 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 21. Jan 2006
Beiträge: 185
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| Thanks, guys. I was afraid of that. I think I'll tar/gzip the rdiff-backup directory and then save off the tar file by sharing it to my Windows machine. That external drive contains Acronis TrueImage images as well, so I can't just switch it to ext3...repartitioning using Partition Magic might be ok though... |
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 03.06.2006, 02:24 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 07. Dez 2005
Beiträge: 369
Wohnort: Port Angeles, Wa. USA
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As often as I have stuffed MY installation, I'm going to purchase a backup drive for safety's sake. I just posted in the hardware section of the forum regarding this, which was very helpful. I'm glad to hear that I can put multiple partitions on it without problems (other than my ignorance about doing so). But I need to get into the habit of backing up consistently, because when screw-ups occur as they invariably do, I spend a crazy amount of time correcting things from a live-cd, which is a major pain in the *** & makes my wife look at me weird like "you did it AGAIN, eh?" .
h2: said:
Zitat:
Another very cheap and easy way to go is to just get a removable harddrive tray and just mount and unmount that.
And I have to ask: What is a removable HD tray? How is it connected? Sorry for my ignorance, kurt |
_________________
illegitimati non carborundum
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 03.06.2006, 03:27 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 21. Jan 2006
Beiträge: 185
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 03.06.2006, 19:24 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 12. Mar 2005
Beiträge: 1005
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No, don't use firewire, it's unreliable for large data transfers, use a real ide or sata tray, like cru dataport v [that's at nerds.net]. I use a firewire drive, in a full sized external enclosure, and it sucks. I did a lot of research on this stuff for a client's job, and if you are going to chose one option, firewire external or internal removable drive trays, ide or sata, chose the drive tray option, especially the sata drive tray option. The cost of getting the frame/carrier + sata drive will be about the same as buying a junk all in one preassembled one like maxtor or western digital sell.
cru is the best, it's 10 times better than the cheap junk that other companies put out for about 1/2 the price, that cheap stuff always breaks, has data transfer errrors, fans die, whatever.
SATA is a better choice for the tray and hard drive because sata is truly hotswappable, your results will vary with ide, although linux is much more robust handling mount/unmount operations than windows.
Since the actual drive tray pulls out after you unmount the drive, you can jsut get more trays for each hard drive, that lets you have backup drives, test drives, extra data drives, whatever you want.
And if you mount the drives by label, not by /dev/hda or whatever, linux will know what to do with each drive in each tray.
For maximum flexibility, get this one:
http://www.thenerds.net/index.php?page= ... 1155000000
shop around, you can usually get about 1/2 the price at online parts stores
<added> Found the full price/inventory list, at the nerds.net. poorly designed website, hard to find stuff, but good prices. |
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Titel:
Verfasst am: 03.06.2006, 20:14 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 16. Aug 2004
Beiträge: 1905
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I recommend against parallel ATA frames, the whole protocol is not hot swappable and you might seriously damage your computer by doing so. USB-/ firewire is not that reliable as it should be, but still a whole lot better than swapping p-ata devices (regardless how).
S-ATA on the other hand might be an interesting option, not only does it support hot swapping natively (you have to umount of course), it also doesn't loose performance to the pci - USB/ firewire bidge (external S-ATA enclosures are slowly appearing in the wild). |
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