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SteveR
Titel: APM Functions Gone after HD Install  BeitragVerfasst am: 21.08.2006, 05:06 Uhr



Anmeldung: 19. Aug 2006
Beiträge: 40
Wohnort: Vermont
Thanks for a really amazing system!

One of a few initial problems I've had:

When I install 2005-04 32 bit to HD (done this several times) the APM functions which were detected during a normal Live CD session are no longer present.

I'm using an IBM Thinkpad 600E, and in the Live CD sessions am making the Grub choice : "No ACPI -- No DMA, English Version."

Under those circumstances in a LiveCD session, APMD is started and APM is sucessfully detected in BIOS. The Laptop Battery display is enabled and APM functions work.

When I do an HD install from that setup however, and reboot from HD, the Laptop Battery display function is no longer present. Going to the K Control Center to enable the Laptop Battery function doesn't work. An error message is shown there:

"Your computer doesn't have the Linux APM (Advanced Power Management) or ACPI software installed, or doesn't have the APM kernel drivers installed - check out the Linux Laptop-HOWTO document for information on how to install APM."

The Laptop document URL fails. Doing a web search for it doesn't do much good, the document doesn't have much to say beyond what the error message says.

So, why would a kernal module that functions on the Live CD sessions not carry through to the installation? And what to do?

Like any laptop user I need the battery indication (and other apm functions). Unfortunately I donm't want to risk ACPI because of the following article specifically about the Thinkpad 600E:

"Warning: kanotix 2005-03 life CD with default ACPI can destroy hardware...."
http://linuxfocus.org/~guido/gentoo-tp600e/

While I take that article with a grain of salt, the possibility of anEEPROM corruption makes me feel cautious about enabling ACPI on this machine.

Yes, I'm using a new carefully checked DAO disk, hand burned at 8X on a new Plextor burner with verified file MP5s before and after burning, and a good TestCD cheatcode output.

Can anyone help restore the apm functions?

Thanks for your help....

Steve
 
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piper
Titel: RE: APM Functions Gone after HD Install  BeitragVerfasst am: 21.08.2006, 06:14 Uhr
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Try

unfreeze-rc.d
apt-get install kpowersave
freeze-rc.d
adduser yourusername powerdev

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h2's d-u script
h2's rdiff-backup script
 
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kelmo
Titel: RE: APM Functions Gone after HD Install  BeitragVerfasst am: 21.08.2006, 08:26 Uhr
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Anmeldung: 01. Okt 2004
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And reboot, so that the sysfs files required for the powerdev group have correct permissions.
 
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piper
Titel: RE: APM Functions Gone after HD Install  BeitragVerfasst am: 21.08.2006, 08:41 Uhr
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Thanks kelmo, don't know how I forgot to say "reboot" Winken

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schnorrer
Titel: RE: APM Functions Gone after HD Install  BeitragVerfasst am: 21.08.2006, 10:58 Uhr



Anmeldung: 09. Jan 2006
Beiträge: 1721

does not help very much on a IBM TP-600E. Since the TP-Extra modules are missing/not installed by default. Or the bios wasn't the latest available one. Btw. The latest TP-600E Bios offers extra funktions for ide-drives >> 32GB.
 
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SteveR
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 21.08.2006, 13:38 Uhr



Anmeldung: 19. Aug 2006
Beiträge: 40
Wohnort: Vermont
Yup, BIOS was already upgraded to the latest (INET36WW).

My question is, why did it work fine on LiveCD and disappear after HD install?

The CD polls the BIOS, finds APM compatible, runs APMD etc. and all is well.

Why does this not happen after HD install?
 
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SteveR
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 21.08.2006, 14:19 Uhr



Anmeldung: 19. Aug 2006
Beiträge: 40
Wohnort: Vermont
Hmmmm, I'm thinking I might have answered my own question in the USB enclosure thread.

What would happen if Grub's stage 2 was above the 1024 cylinder position on the HD? Would the system still boot ? (mine does)

I did a find file for stage2 and it is certainly above that.

Is stage 2 where Kanotix does a lot of its hardware searching? Because that might explain why I'm missing the apm detection and features.

I noticed after the HD install that the startup looked different -- no colored text messages as the boot progresses, more and different boot messages, no little dancing and jackhammering tux. Didn't think much about that, just assumed the HD installed version was a little different than the LiveCD version.

Maybe stage2 is where that stuff comes from, and that explains why the apm doesn't work?
 
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h2
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 21.08.2006, 18:46 Uhr



Anmeldung: 12. Mar 2005
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No, not related. You can install grub menu stage 2 far, far beyond the 1024 cyclinder limit with no problems I've ever seen.

The livecd is not the same as the installed kanotix, many key differences, one of which you've found.

However, laptops like the 600 series are getting fairly old, so it's hard to say what they supported internally in terms of all that fancy new powermanagement stuff.

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Read more on dist-upgrades using du-fixes-h2.sh script.
New: rdiff-backup script
 
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schnorrer
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 21.08.2006, 19:12 Uhr



Anmeldung: 09. Jan 2006
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there is no problem with cylinders above 1024. But under some circumstances grub should stay at the mbr on the hd.

This is stage 1 where the bootstraploader is. Stage 1,5 is where the kernel modules are taken proccesscontrol for the rest. And this time the files found could be past the magic 1024 cyl. barrier.

You're right thinking an install on HD is different than on CD.

On CD-Run most modules are searched and found by the scripts. Than configured by the scripts. You know while in CD-Mode you have less writing options for any program and userdata including the protocolfile dmesg or other logfile.

but when kanotix is installed on hd, there are files missing which can tell the installer, what modules to use and install extra. The installer uses only the normal kernel-built-in modules on hd. Though the needed extra modules for older machine like the TP600E, are never installed.

You should do this after the first reboot without the CD. Because some of the modules for the TP are for kernels V2.4.x.x and others are copyrighted. Most of the time IBM has tolerated this type of installation, but the original source was not free.

Back to startup process, yes it is different, the CD-Starting-Scripts are not used on a HD-Install, as you guessed.
 
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SteveR
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 21.08.2006, 22:51 Uhr



Anmeldung: 19. Aug 2006
Beiträge: 40
Wohnort: Vermont
h2, thanks kindly for replying and clarifying.

Re laptop age: Kannotix Live CD on the Thinkpad 600e -- the power functions worked out of the box, and the loading messages showed the apm bios was found and apcmd and power functions were detected, enabled and running. Battery meter was shown and sleep, etc wirked fine.

This doesn't seem to have anything to do with the age of the lappy. None of that would work if it did. It's the difference betw. CD and HD that is the problem.

...I guess I was naive in thinking that by installing a system like Kanotix to HD, it would be the same system and look and feel the same as on CD, except that it could run faster, and be upgradeable and extensible.


Traurig Traurig I'm getting to the point where, good as I think Kanotix is, maybe I ought to bail on this OS installation project.

Thanks kindly also schnorrer for taking the time to answer.

question -- -- when you say "you should do this...." ....did you leave out some instructions -- what is it I should I do?

I'm also unclear about what you say about kernel V2.4xx and IBM copyrights. Do you mean the CD has parts of an old kernal and has copyright conflicts, and that's why the installed system is different than the LiveCD system?

Or if I have that wrong, and it's just a matter of having left out certain "scripts or modules" used by the CD, why can't they be installed to HD after the fact? Seems to me if apmd works on the CD it can work on the HD.

Maybe also the Kanotix Installer should have a switch in the installer: "Load minimal standard modules and scripts" vs "Load all CD modules and scripts." Then everybody is happy?

I'm tempted to try to run from ISO image on HD or USB thumb drive to get back the easy running quality it had before. I don't like all the CD head seeks or the super-critical nature of the CD quality -- especially over time. I don't trust the CD as an OS and application loader.

But running an ISO system may not work -- the single really critical aspect for me is the ability to upgrade Wine to try to run a decent Win 3D cad program. The shipped version of Wine 9.10 has problems. I upgraded to 9.15 and was able to run one CAD prog. But can I do that with an ISO Kanotix? I imagine not. And I imagine I can't add any deb applications either.

If I could just get a good 3D CAD program running, Kanotix would fulfill every need I have for office and utility apps -- it's feature rich as is, and I could dump windows forever.

Or a free or reasonable Linux native CAD ... I notice that CollabCad is now available bundled on Knoppix. see:

http://www.collabcad.com/download.html

Any possibility of adding this to Kanotix in future? Seems like a very powerful high-end system from the description.

Thanks again for your help. There's got to be a way to make this work out. It seems too close not to.
 
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schnorrer
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 22.08.2006, 12:19 Uhr



Anmeldung: 09. Jan 2006
Beiträge: 1721

I installed Kanotix-Easter-RC4 on the same labtop, it really depends on installing the TP and mwave-tools to get theis old machine to work with apm 1.0. What has never worked, was when the labtop sits in the Dockingstation.

The Installed Kannotix must work only in labtop mode evev with powersupply connected.

answer to your question meaning should ... do : 1. miising module should means you can do this, but I recommand this to install this modules right after the normal HD-Install.

I told to install the missing labtop-tools., than next sentence "should do" a reboot after module install. to get this modules to work. It also depends on having done the installation of this modules.

Running Linux on a dump-USB-drive will not work with the TP600E, to old and not supported by this mashine. USB is only version 0.9pre, and a option tho boot from USB is also missing by the bios.

For a 3D-cad have a look at debian.org hter are minimum 2 3D-Cad programms.
 
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SteveR
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 23.08.2006, 15:56 Uhr



Anmeldung: 19. Aug 2006
Beiträge: 40
Wohnort: Vermont
re:
"I installed Kanotix-Easter-RC4 on the same labtop, it really depends on installing the TP and mwave-tools to get theis old machine to work with apm 1.0. What has never worked, was when the labtop sits in the Dockingstation."

I am using 2005-04. I don't use a docking station. This laptop works fine w/live CD and full power management support. LiveCD startup messages are:

Starting advanced power management daemon: apmd[1262]: apmd 3.2.1 interfacing with the apm driver 1.16ac and apm BIOS 1.2 apmd

APM BIOS found, power management functions enabled


There is nothing wrong or too old about using this laptop with Kanotix 2005-04. It demonstrably works fine in the LiveCD mode. There is absolutely no reason it shouldn't act the same after HD installed mode, and frankly it is what an ordinary user would have expected.

I don't see the need to upgrade to later kernals and add newer applications not already on the 2005-04 CD, since once again it already works fine in Live CD mode. What is needed is simply to install the same modules and apm configuration that got left out when the installer went to work. I think the installer is the problem, not the laptop, or for that matter Kanotix 2005-04.

It would be really helpful if someone would tell me the difference in loaded modules and config between 2005-04 LiveCD and 2005-04 installed HD (re. apmd). That would point the proper way to solving the problem.


re:
"Running Linux on a dump-USB-drive will not work with the TP600E, to old and not supported by this mashine. USB is only version 0.9pre, and a option tho boot from USB is also missing by the bios.

Other sources on the internet list the Thinkpad 600E as working under USB 1.1. I have a 1 gig pen drive that is recognized fine in both Win98SE and Kanotix. I've installed the ISO to it and the appropriate boot dirs, etc. according to the Kanotix USB drive FAQ. I have no trouble reading or writing to it and it automounts under Kanotix while running. The only problem is booting to it.

Yes the "boot to USB" option is not available in the TP 600E BIOS, but it is not inconceivable to get around that limitation. An initial boot to HD or CD which loads USB drivers, and then mounts and redirects to boot on the Pen drive may be possible. There are already USB drivers for DOS boot (USBASPI, "mattu haru," etc). A DOS boot and then redirect to Grub on the Sda1 may work. I will be looking into this, but this is getting away from the thread here and may form the subject of another thread, since it would be of intrest to anyone without USB boot order support native in BIOS.

re: CAD on Debian.org -- the only cad I see in testing (I assume that is where to look for Kanotix) is QCAD (2D) and PythonCAD (an unfinished CAD project).

Thank you though for replying and trying to help!
 
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schnorrer
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 24.08.2006, 00:26 Uhr



Anmeldung: 09. Jan 2006
Beiträge: 1721

Work yes, but not for bootfrom USB. Self tested. with external USB-cd/burner.

For your APM1.2 there are several different versions TP 600E around, mine was a tp600e-2645-a80 . The last seq. at the end tells which MB-revision is built in (-a80) and the -2645 tells what kind of cd/dvd, minimum ram, ... is installed.

3D-CAD: last weekend, I found one at debian.
 
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bluewater
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 24.08.2006, 14:30 Uhr
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Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
@ schnorrer

apt-cache search 3D-CAD ( nada.. nothing notes,, needs to do a google to see if they have a source and add to sources list... AND you cannot make a comment like ""3D-CAD: last weekend, I found one at debian."" and then just bugger off .... add how, why ,when and where )

apt-cache search labtop-tools (nada ,, nothing)
apt-cache search laptop-tools (nada .. nothing)
apt-cache search laptop-tool (nada- nothing)
apt-cache search laptop-utils (nada-nothing)

apt-cache search laptop BINGO and well , i be blowed,, thinkpad stuff as well.. now its a matter of matching what SteveR has to whats in apt

really , schnorrer get your act together .

_________________
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Kanotix 2006 Easter RC4 on a P2 and Production Box , Desktop KDE::
Kanotix EasterRC4 on a MMX 199Mhz lappy
and a Production Box, Desktop ICEWM::
 
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slam
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 24.08.2006, 15:23 Uhr



Anmeldung: 05. Okt 2004
Beiträge: 2069
Wohnort: w3
CAD in Linux, was already a topic here some time ago. Actually most CAD was done until recently on expensive optimized Unix workstations, so most professional software is still Unix/Linux compatible. Windows was never a good operating system for such demanding tasks - well, we all know that, that's why we are here. Winken

Some links for further reading:

http://www.varicad.com/
http://www.graphiteone-cad.com/
http://www.octree.de/
http://www.varkon.com/
http://www.cycas.de/
http://www.ptc.com/appserver/mkt/products/home.jsp?k=403

Probalby the best collection of CAD related Linux links:

http://www.tech-edv.co.at/lunix/CADlinks.html

Greetings,
Chris

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"An operating system must operate."
 
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SteveR
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 25.08.2006, 14:24 Uhr



Anmeldung: 19. Aug 2006
Beiträge: 40
Wohnort: Vermont
Thanks Chris,

Unfortunately, the CAD discussion on the forum was in German and I couldn't read it.

Thanks for for taking the trouble to give a CAD the site list. I've already been to most of the sites you list. Unfortunately:

Varicad costs $499
Graphite One 3D costs $705.88

Octree is geared to architects and does not do spline curves (or they aren't mentioned) I design boats and mechanical assemblies.

Varkon is not really a CAD application but a set of tools to build CAD applications. It doesn't do solids. It is interesting, though.

I already own DesignCad 3DMax versions 12, 15, and 17 and TurboCad 12. These are very reasonably priced and do everything I need. Unfortunately they are Win programs, and I haven't (yet) succeeded in porting to Wine. I have successfully ported the free version of Turbocad LE (2D) to Wine 9.15 (which is an upgrade to Wine 9.11 shipped w/Kanotix 2005-04). Wine is up to ver. 9.18 by now but not available in a deb for Debian (other than Kubuntu/Ubuntu.)

ThisCAD stuff should all be in a separate thread because I still have the APM problem. I'm opening a "CAD on Kanotix thread" in the Software Forum for it.

I guess the next step in resolving the apm problem is recompiling the kernel w/apm modules -- can someone point me to a description of how to do this? I ahve already checked that the apm daemon (apmd) is installed, and the automatically loaded cheatcode in grub reads "apm=on". The missing part is the kernel side of it.
 
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SteveR
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 26.08.2006, 11:23 Uhr



Anmeldung: 19. Aug 2006
Beiträge: 40
Wohnort: Vermont
APM Problem Solved:

Thanks to everyone who helped!

Following Bluewater's suggestion, but substituting "battery" for "laptop":

apt-cache search battery

yielded a list in which was ibam, an ap that analyzes battery laptop power and interfaces w/apm (I'd already found that apm 1.16 was installed.) When I did a:

apt-get install ibam

I found it was a small program with no additional dependencies. During the install, Ibam noticed that apm wasn't enabled and asked if a helper ap should enable it. I answered yes to that and yes to starting it at boot.

After the installation, entering "apm" in the root console yielded batery information, (when before it had only said that apm was not in the kernel). Likewise The Kde Control Center now allowed the Laptop Battery functions to be set, where, previously it indicated apm functions were absent in the kernel. After setting up the Laptop Battery functions and rebooting, everything functioned as it had when I was running the LiveCD. The battery meter was shown on the taskbar and suspend functions worked.

One noticeable difference was the battery meter indication. It was far more accurate than it had been before on the LiveCD. Ibam aparently uses some sophisticated algorithms to calculate the charge and time remaining. This is important on the TP 600e since battery indications are known to be problematic with this model.

Sehr glücklich I'm happy. Thank you all again at Kanotix for an amazing system!

--Steve
 
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bluewater
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 26.08.2006, 13:18 Uhr
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SteveR

Go and pour a favourite glass of beverage and salute yourself,,and celebrate well done!

_________________
Kanotix Easter RC4 on a dual boot P4 and a production box Desktop KDE::
Kanotix 2006 Easter RC4 on a P2 and Production Box , Desktop KDE::
Kanotix EasterRC4 on a MMX 199Mhz lappy
and a Production Box, Desktop ICEWM::
 
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pcalvert
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 05.09.2006, 01:25 Uhr



Anmeldung: 05. Sep 2006
Beiträge: 14

Steve,

Your experience is not unique. I had exactly the same problem with Kanotix 2005-04 on an old laptop (Transmonde Vivante SE). It's one of the reasons why I decided against using Kanotix.

I plan to reinstall Kanotix on a spare partition tonight, just so I can play around with it and re-evaluate it now that I have several months of experience using Debian stable. I am going to bookmark your solution for getting APM working. I suspect that it may come in very handy. But I have also seen other solutions, so if I find another simple solution that works I will be sure to post it.

Phil
 
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