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eco2geek
Titel: An Ubuntu package invades Debian!  BeitragVerfasst am: 14.11.2006, 08:09 Uhr



Anmeldung: 02. Mai 2004
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Winken

It was surprising to see "update-manager 0.42.2ubuntu22-7" installed as part of the default "workstation" package.



("Update Manager" looks like openSUSE's Xen updater -- the icon's the same. The other piece that comes with it, "Software Properties," is a GUI front-end to sources.lst.)

What's next?
 
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hubi
Titel: An Ubuntu package invades Debian!  BeitragVerfasst am: 14.11.2006, 08:59 Uhr



Anmeldung: 22. Jan 2006
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eco2geek,

could you please only link to pics at imageshack and not to the html-site, they have pr0n-ads.

Thanks,
hubi

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craigevil
Titel: RE: An Ubuntu package invades Debian!  BeitragVerfasst am: 14.11.2006, 11:20 Uhr



Anmeldung: 29. Mar 2005
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Wohnort: Terra
That is rather strange and annoying the package maintainers could rename it and make a note that it is derived from Ubuntu. If I wanted to use a crappy distro where I had to change my sources.list every time a release came out I would use *buntu. Since I do not choose to do that and instead I run Kanotix/Debian Sid, I feel the maintainer should rename the package, and I emailed several of them asking that they do so. Oh well its for Gnome anyway, I am KDE/Icewm nut.

Package update-manager
* testing (gnome): GNOME application that manages software updates
0.42.2ubuntu22-5: all
* unstable (gnome): GNOME application that manages apt updates
0.42.2ubuntu22-7: all
0.41.1.dfsg+CVS20051105-2: kfreebsd-i386

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wegface
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 14.11.2006, 15:17 Uhr



Anmeldung: 02. Nov 2005
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I like ubuntu about as much as i like vista, but whats so bad about ubuntu contributing back to debian?

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eco2geek
Titel: Re: An Ubuntu package invades Debian!  BeitragVerfasst am: 14.11.2006, 20:40 Uhr



Anmeldung: 02. Mai 2004
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Wohnort: Portland, OR, USA
hubi hat folgendes geschrieben::
could you please only link to pics at imageshack and not to the html-site, they have pr0n-ads.

What did you see? ImageShack's terms of service specifically prohibit uploading pornographic images (even images depicting nudity), so they shouldn't have any ads for pr0n either. I've never seen any. So please let me know!

wegface hat folgendes geschrieben::
I like ubuntu about as much as i like vista, but whats so bad about ubuntu contributing back to debian?

Nothing! Since Ubunbu's first release came out 2 years ago, it's about time!
 
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hey_ian
Titel: RE: Re: An Ubuntu package invades Debian!  BeitragVerfasst am: 14.11.2006, 21:08 Uhr



Anmeldung: 22. Jan 2006
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I was also wondered as I have seen it. Anyway for the novice user it is a really nice solution to make a dist-upgrade.

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h2
Titel: RE: Re: An Ubuntu package invades Debian!  BeitragVerfasst am: 14.11.2006, 21:16 Uhr



Anmeldung: 12. Mar 2005
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It doesn't make a dist-upgrade, it upgrades from stabilized pools, either like ubuntu uses or sarge/etch will use.

If this applictation were installed and run on sid or testing, it would break the system exactly like any other gui upgrade manager, or doing a du in x, will if you bring in new kde/x/various other libraries.

It's a nice feature for stuff that uses a stabilized software pool, that's it though. I've played with it a little in various distros, ubuntu, gnuLinex, and etch, all of which use pretty much the same interface by default. But I've never used it over time, I don't know how they handle the x/kde/gnome stuff updating.

My guess is that this runs upgrade, not dist-upgrade.

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Gowator
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 16.11.2006, 14:43 Uhr



Anmeldung: 12. Mar 2004
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wegface hat folgendes geschrieben::
I like ubuntu about as much as i like vista, but whats so bad about ubuntu contributing back to debian?


Security....

Basically all of Ubuntu is riddled with disease ...
The disease itself isn't fatal ... its just an absense of root password and ALL:ALL in sudoers...

This isn't really the problem though ... its the cause of the problems...
the prob is that every app that touches security/root needs rewriting.... or hacking to work because this isn't the way nix apps are written...

so the devs spend their whole time hacking programs to remove the security (and lets face it they are not exactly the most security conscious devs to start off with)

In effect its like someone with critically high cholesterol taking pills... while consuming bucket loads of cholesterol... its merely treating the symptoms no the cause and like many 150kg critically high cholesterol people they refuse to actually address the real issue.... Linux doesn't work that way....

What started as a convenience has become an obsession and the one thing they won't look at is the sudo policy.... so they just get deeper and deeper into writing ...

As an analogy its like mandriva ... they started their control centre and it never quite worked but as more and more stuff was in intergrated into KDE and even Gnome they had to start hacking KDE to remove the parts that screw their control centre...

Its a good idea (perhaps) gone horribly wrong because they can't for instance control what SAMBA developers add... so the MCC ends up breaking samba ...cups or whatever... the only part they control is the package management which works as well as any RPM can be expected ... but because they have the history of X,Y,Z they end up digging deeper and deeper ... and hacking more and more to work with their distro and less and less only HW support or other critical items.

Ubuntu has gone this path... they won't change and their code is tainted.
Why backport ? its not so hard to package a deb from source ...? though in this case its their own which as h2 says will probably break an unstable install...
 
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craigevil
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 16.11.2006, 16:07 Uhr



Anmeldung: 29. Mar 2005
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Switching to ubuntu wiki
Zitat:
Every six months a snapshot of Debian Unstable is made and Ubuntu is created from that. That said, installing packages made for Debian on your Ubuntu system can often cause problems due to the minor differences and tweaking the Ubuntu developers need to do to make Ubuntu stable - use Ubuntu's Universe and Multiverse repositories instead for you extra software needs.
A snapshot puts it behind, way behind Sid by the time they finally do a release.

Mark Shuttleworth » Blog Archive » Conflicting goals create tension in communities
Zitat:
Consider Sid. Yes, it breaks your toys now and then, but by and large it represents an extraordinary achievement - pretty much the latest releases of the upstream communities, packaged and categorized. Nothing else, from Ubuntu or Red Hat or Novell (or Microsoft) comes anywhere close. Debian Developers are at their happiest running and working on Sid - a recent survey found that something like 76% of Debian users run Sid, while only something like 6% of Ubuntu users run the equivalent beta code. And remember, Ubuntu only has an Edgy or an Edgy+1 because of Sid.


My problem with that package and any others from Ubuntu that make it into Debian repos, is naming conventions. Fine it comes from Ubuntu put that in the comments.
Second has it been tweaked to work the proper Debian way or is it going to cause problems trying to use it down the road.

Silly question, and I know I've asked this is IRC, if the GUI update tools like Synaptic break things why isn't there a note or something mentioning that? Isn't the great thing about Debian that you can update running package with out causing problems?

Ubuntu could not exist without Debian | Linuxlookup
Zitat:
I’m of the opinion that Ubuntu could not exist without Debian. So it’s absolutely my intention to see that Ubuntu is a constructive part of the broader Debian landscape. It’s vital that Ubuntu help to sustain and grow Debian, because it’s the breadth and strength of Debian which make up the “shoulders of greatness” on which we in the Ubuntu community stand when we reach for the stars.


With all the quotes from Shuttleworth about ubuntu contributing back to Debian , where are all the patches and/or new packages? This is the first one I have seen or heard about.

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hey_ian
Titel: Re: RE: Re: An Ubuntu package invades Debian!  BeitragVerfasst am: 16.11.2006, 18:09 Uhr



Anmeldung: 22. Jan 2006
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h2 hat folgendes geschrieben::
It doesn't make a dist-upgrade, it upgrades from stabilized pools, either like ubuntu uses or sarge/etch will use.


Standardly the update-manager does not make an dist-upgrade but an upgrade, but you can use it to make a dist-upgrade too. I have used it to upgrade Dapper to Edgy Beta.

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Gowator
Titel:   BeitragVerfasst am: 16.11.2006, 19:32 Uhr



Anmeldung: 12. Mar 2004
Beiträge: 275
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craigevil hat folgendes geschrieben::
Switching to ubuntu wiki
Zitat:
Every six months a snapshot of Debian Unstable is made and Ubuntu is created from that. That said, installing packages made for Debian on your Ubuntu system can often cause problems due to the minor differences and tweaking the Ubuntu developers need to do to make Ubuntu stable - use Ubuntu's Universe and Multiverse repositories instead for you extra software needs.
A snapshot puts it behind, way behind Sid by the time they finally do a release.

Mark Shuttleworth » Blog Archive » Conflicting goals create tension in communities
Zitat:
Consider Sid. Yes, it breaks your toys now and then, but by and large it represents an extraordinary achievement - pretty much the latest releases of the upstream communities, packaged and categorized. Nothing else, from Ubuntu or Red Hat or Novell (or Microsoft) comes anywhere close. Debian Developers are at their happiest running and working on Sid - a recent survey found that something like 76% of Debian users run Sid, while only something like 6% of Ubuntu users run the equivalent beta code. And remember, Ubuntu only has an Edgy or an Edgy+1 because of Sid.


My problem with that package and any others from Ubuntu that make it into Debian repos, is naming conventions. Fine it comes from Ubuntu put that in the comments.
Second has it been tweaked to work the proper Debian way or is it going to cause problems trying to use it down the road.

Silly question, and I know I've asked this is IRC, if the GUI update tools like Synaptic break things why isn't there a note or something mentioning that? Isn't the great thing about Debian that you can update running package with out causing problems?

Ubuntu could not exist without Debian | Linuxlookup
Zitat:
I’m of the opinion that Ubuntu could not exist without Debian. So it’s absolutely my intention to see that Ubuntu is a constructive part of the broader Debian landscape. It’s vital that Ubuntu help to sustain and grow Debian, because it’s the breadth and strength of Debian which make up the “shoulders of greatness” on which we in the Ubuntu community stand when we reach for the stars.


With all the quotes from Shuttleworth about ubuntu contributing back to Debian , where are all the patches and/or new packages? This is the first one I have seen or heard about.


Summing up both questions ...naming and tweaks... the answer is in my post above. they take a snapshot and then they have to edit all the stuff to work without an active root account... which leads through deps to other mods which leads to and endless cycle of mods in order to save the user learning a second password (OMG)...
 
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